Guest Bio:
Ashely Wright is the Founder of socialtale.co, one of the first TikTok Shop agencies in the UK. He has been working with TikTok Shop since 2023 and helps his clients grow the social commerce part of their business.
Episode Summary:
In this conversation, Ashley Wright discusses the evolution and potential of TikTok Shop as a platform for e-commerce. He shares insights from his experience transitioning from a Meta agency to a TikTok Shop agency, emphasizing the importance of understanding the platform’s unique dynamics and the need for patience and strategy in achieving success. The discussion covers various aspects of building a TikTok Shop agency, including client relationships, content creation, and the challenges of navigating a rapidly changing social commerce landscape. Ashley also highlights the significance of live shopping and the future of social commerce, while addressing common myths and misconceptions about TikTok Shop.
Main Takeaways:
- TikTok Shop offers a unique opportunity for e-commerce brands.
- Building a successful TikTok Shop agency requires patience and strategy.
- Client education is crucial for managing expectations.
- Content creation must focus on engagement and conversion.
- Live shopping is an evolving aspect of social commerce.
- The market is still maturing, with potential for growth.
- Brands need to invest resources to succeed on TikTok Shop.
- Understanding the platform’s algorithm is key to success.
- Affiliate marketing can be a viable income source for creators.
- Emerging product categories are likely to thrive on TikTok Shop.
Full Transcript:
Moritz Schröder (00:03.121)
Ashley, I’m really excited to be talking to you. And one of the reasons is that you were very, very early with TikTok Shop. You live in the UK and UK was the first Western market that TikTok Shop got rolled out to, even before the US. You jumped on that train really quickly. Can you speak a little bit to how you first got interested in TikTok Shop?
Ashley (00:31.756)
Yeah, first of all, thanks for having me. And yeah, for me, TikTok and TikTok shop was always a interesting platform that I always felt that it was going to have some legs. So fast, rewind and back, I would say for me, TikTok was always a platform that I was always looking into. My background is actually from Meta, I used to run Metarads at big agencies working across multiple big brands. So
It was at the time when I was leaving the agency at that point, we was trying to get like an enterprise brand onto tick tock. I thought, well, if all these bigger brands are just looking into tick tock, keep in mind, this is before tick tock shop. I thought there’s going to probably be some legs in the, in the near future in terms of that Instagram was getting a little bit diluted. Tick tock was looking more discovery. Even though it’s point people were still thinking it was more like the, dancing platform. But again, if the brands were starting to
take note of it. I thought it’s only going to be a little bit of time until it started to be become a bigger thing. So from my perspective, I just started to understand the platform was figuring out how the algorithm worked, how to quote unquote go viral on the platform. And keeping in mind at this stage, there was never anything to kind of justify that it worked for econ brands, right? Because again, yes, we was doing organic content. And again, like I I did some consulting and I can run projects for brands, but the organic never kind of
generated necessarily ROI. So brands will, yeah, we’re getting a lot of views. We’re getting a lot of engagement, but where the sales coming from. again, it was kind of a, uh, a catch 22. obviously some brands obviously liking that because again, obviously for when’s was good, but then at the same time, the ROI was always hard to justify to them, obviously, um, speaking with the rest of their team. So that was obviously one element of it. And then obviously tick tock ads was another part that again, based on my background, meta ads.
I do know actually we’re on TikTok ads as well. again, similar kind of scenario that yes, TikTok ads was doing well in terms of driving traffic to the DTC and obviously to, to get actual traffic. But what was happening was the attribution again, three, four years ago on TikTok was never that good. So again, even though traffic was there.
Ashley (02:33.378)
you’d look on your TikTok ads dashboard and you wouldn’t actually see any sales coming through. So even though it was driving traffic and it was probably converting what was happening because it was such a discovery platform, people would maybe would see an ad. They might unnecessarily click and buy straight away. They’d probably do their due diligence and obviously go and maybe search for the brand. And then what happened is Google or metal then obviously pick up attribution. So it looked like they’re obviously getting the sale. So again, from then onwards.
TikTok ads was kind of a thing that brands were like, yeah, okay, I get it, but it’s not as good as meta. So let’s not run it. So again, it was always these conversations having with brands that they were willing to try it, but it was always hard to kind of convince them to do it long-term. then, behold, that’s obviously when TikTok Shop came along, which again, it kind of then answered all the questions in terms of obviously still being able to have that discovery element, but at the same time being able to obviously drive actual ROI, which was great. So from then onwards, again, my background obviously like to say, just figuring out the TikTok side of things.
allowed me to kind of have that first mover advantage in terms of being able to start to again take what I already knew and kind of just mix it in with now that kind of commerce kind of play as well, which again, obviously now to they obviously we’ve seen it continue to grow. So yeah, that’s a bit of backstory. And obviously in terms of from then onwards, people started to recognise that again, obviously myself and obviously a team obviously were good people in the space and obviously knew how to get results just based on like I say, being in the in the trenches from from day one really.
Moritz Schröder (03:55.363)
How did you go about then becoming an actual TikTok shop agency? How did that process look like? Was it straightforward to you also with the experience that you already had in that space or was it very different from what you had previously experienced within the e-commerce agency world? Was TikTok a well organized platform at that point or were they struggling with?
pretty much the struggles that any platform has that launches something new in a new market and also in a very different market from what they had previously in Asia, right? Where the mindset is just different and TikTok or Douyin over in China already had a huge following and a foundation to build upon. How did those early days look like as an agency in the UK running TikTok shop?
Ashley (04:49.131)
Yeah, it was definitely hard. get me wrong. Again, it was always about obviously convincing brands to kind of take the leap right again, if any new platform comes along, it’s always a big educational piece and also that trust factor as well. And again, like say, when the UK market did launch, was only like say there was a beta program to begin with, which unfortunately we’ve got a part of that.
And then again, was kind of, it happened, then it kind of like pause for a period of time, because again, there was not much adoption to it. So again, even that was the case, it kind of didn’t really take off too much. And again, luckily for us, because again, like say our transition went from like say Meta agency to like Meta UGC with TikTok in the mix, then UGC and TikTok. So again, we’re luckily, we were still doing other platforms whilst obviously still trying to figure out the TikTok side of things. So again, it was kind of like trying to convince brands, but again, we’re having the conversation and brands were just
It’s like, it’s just a dancing platform. We can’t see ROI from it. So funny enough, like say we did have a few UK brands to begin with. It didn’t last too long because again, the platform was just really underserved at that point. Because again, I feel like everyone was trying to figure out not just obviously agencies brands, also TikTok at the same time as well. I think they maybe thought it was going to take off quicker than it did. So again, obviously that in TikTok kind of went back to the drawing board. So with that, that then allowed us to kind of…
scope out the kind of US markets and obviously US was starting to launch as well. So again, we kind of just took the lens from what we did in the UK. And fortunately, again, from our perspective, I think the US market was more open to it. Again, what we find in UK, obviously UK is a little bit more skeptical to obviously new platforms, trying new things out, whereas the US, if they see something, they’re like, okay, let’s, let’s try it. Let’s see how it kind of works. So at that point, again, obviously we was new to TikTok shop. We obviously understood exactly the mechanics behind it. But again,
it was not, there was never really a playbook. Again, there was no one to kind of follow. So again, we actually had to try and create that our own playbook. So with that, fortunately, it was a platform that again, kind of everything kind of went, you could literally just send out samples at scale. If you get in front of the creators quite easily.
Ashley (06:50.463)
And again, content went viral quite quickly and quite easy as well, because again, obviously TikTok was making sure that they’re pushing more of their emphasis on the kind of TikTok shop algorithm side of things. So again, I remember, gosh, back in like say 2023 days in terms of like, we can send product to create so they can literally just hold the product, point to it, say, go buy this now. And it could go viral again. That’s how easy it was back in those days then. And again, it literally was just trying to figure out, is this going to be sustainable?
Is this going to work? again, kind of like figuring out how it worked as a overall model as well. So yeah, that was kind of how it started. And again, like I say, it was easy to can transition for us because it can like say we was an agency, but again, it was also about it was the hard part was obviously trying to find people who I could bring on the team because again, obviously no one had the experience in a TikTok shop. So again, it was just trying to find people who were either like minded or trying to do it in house with all brands as well to start to build out the team in terms of what we’ve got today.
Moritz Schröder (07:49.035)
So you certainly had a first mover advantage there and you had all your background to fall back on within e-commerce. So I’m sure that was hugely beneficial for building out your TikTok shop agency. Generally speaking though, what else would you say is essential if you want to start a TikTok shop agency and actually be consistent and eventually successful with it.
Ashley (07:51.885)
You
Ashley (08:14.305)
Yeah, I think you, I think the proof is in the pudding, right? You have to be able to provide results, right? And again, I think it is definitely a space that is a lot harder to, because again, as we know with TikTok shop, there is a big part of it is patience, because again, it’s not a did man platform that you launched today and you obviously are scaling to 50 or 100K tomorrow, right? It does take time in terms of you have that one to three month period where it is a cold start. So again, I think a lot of the kind of…
Emphasis right now is obviously educating the brands that look, yes, you might have to invest in terms of whether it’s on your samples, your affiliate commission, obviously paid in agency, if that’s the case as well. And you might not necessarily see an ROI from that for maybe two, three months, even six months in some cases. Right. So again, I think as an agency doing it, you have to be willing to have the conversation with the clients and at the same time being transparent with the brands. I think where I see right now where a lot of agencies probably going wrong is because again,
a lot of ages are just spawning because obviously TikTok shop is the new golden goose, right? So again, they’re trying to just learn on the brand’s diamond and not necessarily be able to generate results. So again, if I was an agency staff today, I would figure out how to do it. Like I say, maybe work some brands for free or like say on a percentage basis. I know that as an agency, might not necessarily make money to begin with, but at you’re figuring it out.
I’d have that again, conversation with the brand saying, look, we are new to the space. are trying to figure out, but again, based on that, we won’t charge you for the service to begin with. So my long lines of that, because I feel like what the worst we don’t want to happen in the space right now is that a lot of agencies try to do it again. They’ve worked for a brand for three months. They don’t get results, but the brands pay the agency that leaves a sour taste in the brand’s mouth right. So then again, when the next agency will tweet that brand, they think, okay, all agencies are not legit. They can’t get results. And again, it kind of makes it to be a bad.
kind of scenario going forward. So yeah, I think that’d be definitely the strategy I would take if I was launching at TXR agencies today.
Moritz Schröder (10:10.111)
So you try to get a foot in the door by being cheaper than competitors or maybe even offering your services for free and thereby you’re slowly building your portfolio and eventually have some success stories to point to when you actually approach clients and want to charge them for your services.
Ashley (10:25.997)
Yeah, exactly that. And again, just being transparent with the brand as well at same time, because again, you don’t want to make out that you have been doing it for a long time or you know how to get results, you just want to maybe, I say, you might not necessarily get the bigger brands to begin with, but again, you are going to just be able to establish self doing it. So again, and I’d say definitely not charging because again, you don’t want to charge if it’s not going to make sense to the brand, they’re not going to see, not necessarily need to be all right, but need to see anything from it as well. So again, I definitely would do that. And again, as Abe, you see, would just be learning from
people who’ve been doing it in the space for a long time, whether it is brands who’ve been doing it or agencies and stuff like that, and trying to see what works. Cause again, the thing is with the platform, it moves so quickly. So again, what worked today is kind of gone tomorrow. So again, you’ve got to always be kind of keeping up with the, the latest like trends, the latest kind of strategies and stuff like that. So again, you can kind of have that, that first move advantage of us, I’d say time and time again.
Moritz Schröder (11:21.22)
As a already established agency owner like yourself, how do you usually get paid? Do you do it commission based? Do you have a retainer? What’s the typical setup that you have with your clients?
Ashley (11:34.411)
Yeah, for us is basically we charge a retainer plus a a commission, sorry, on GMV. So again, that’s how it kind of works across the brands. And again, obviously with that, we have the full end to end management side of things where we do everything from the whole strategy, the merchandise in the affiliate side, community management, the ad side of things. And then again, we have like separate packages for brands who are looking to then move into the, the live side of things as well.
Moritz Schröder (12:00.141)
And how lucrative can that be for an established agency like the one you’re running? Is it a profitable business? Is it a very profitable business? Also considering that of course there’s more more competition popping up with TikTok Shop being as popular as it is now.
Ashley (12:18.731)
Yeah, it definitely can be. And the thing I’d say to kind of come back that is obviously you need to find good people who can obviously execute as well. And obviously that comes at a premium as well. Right. So again, if you do want obviously good people who can get the results, then you are going to have to pay a little bit extra for that. Cause again, you can obviously build people up from the ground up, but again, obviously it’s going to take a little bit more time. And then again, it just depends in terms of what you want to do. again, like I say, you can obviously
it can work. And again, I think it depends on as a few different variables, right? There’s two terms of obviously, which category you’re serving. So again, maybe you are doing, and again, let’s say how professional you’re working in the health category, it’s a little bit more harder to kind of get established in, or it might be a little bit slow, but once it starts to take off, it’s very scalable. Whereas again, maybe you’re doing maybe again,
the home accessories where again, the margins might be a little bit lower, but you can scale them. And then again, you might not be making as necessary as much money. So again, there’s definitely pros and cons in terms of different categories and definitely can be lucrative if you have got like say that percentage of GMV in place. But again, you’ve got to think long-term because again, like I say, with the brands, might necessarily be making good GMV to maybe month three, month four. And again, if you all need to hire team members to do certain parts of it again. So again, you just got to just make sure that you obviously managing
expectations, but at same time managing obviously your resources and time as well at same time.
Moritz Schröder (13:42.522)
If you for a second take the position of one of your clients and you’re thinking, okay, I’m new to this whole TikTok shop thing. I’ve heard about it. I’ve read about it. I hear some success stories. I want to be part of this game. How do you go about finding the best possible agency to work with? How do you differentiate between a bad agency and one that can really drive results for you?
Ashley (14:08.491)
Yeah, I think the first thing is I think from a brand’s perspective, they need to compare apples to apples, right? Because I think the, the scenario right now is obviously brands are seeing obviously other brands or hearing from other brands doing massive GMV numbers, like a million a month, two million more, but they don’t actually know what’s kind of gone into that and how long it’s kind of taken. So again, if I was a brand, I think I would need to have my head on terms of thinking, okay, how long did it take to kind of scale to that? And at the same time,
what is their kind of KPIs? Are they profitable with that or are they using a kind of like a loss driving mechanism where they can obviously scale quite aggressively because they know their LTV is going to be there. So again, as a brand, I would want to know their numbers before kind of then looking into working with an agency. Then from then onwards, I would then obviously maybe look to partner with someone who’s done it within that category. Because again, it obviously makes it easier for a few reasons. Obviously, again, if they’re established working with brands similar to you, then it’s going to be easy because they’re going to probably have a network of
affiliates, they obviously know the lingo, they know exactly what the kind of commission looks like. And again, they kind of have a better idea of that. And again, I always say, pick an agency that’s got proof that they can do it right. Again, it’s you will always get bad actors in the space and obviously scale brands, but realistically, is that true? And the easy way to kind of find out as well these days, you can just go on for like fast, most and kind of data. It’s obviously not going to be a hundred percent accurate terms of the actual wall numbers, but again, you can get a sense of idea if you say, okay,
brands that you work with, you can look on there to kind of see what that kind of looks like as well. So I would say they would be the main things to kind of determine who I would work with in terms of the brand work with an agency.
Moritz Schröder (15:44.797)
Yeah, I think that’s a really important point that you actually have third party software that you can use to kind of validate the claims that some agencies are making. And I would definitely recommend people do that. Do you have like a tried and true process that you take your clients through when they hire you to scale their TikTok shop? Or do you do it very individually and based on the client, their products, how experienced they are, et cetera.
Ashley (16:14.541)
Yeah, we definitely have a playbook for TikTok shop, right? But at the same time, the playbook is there in terms of the skeleton. But I think the strategy on top of that is going to be different brand to brand, right? For example, a strategy for a $20 product is going to be different to a product that is $200, right? Again, we obviously got brands who are selling 400 pound TVs and we’ve got obviously brands that are selling like 20 pounds cereal, for example. So again, it’s definitely just figuring out what that strategy looks like. And again, I think this is where
A lot of brands go wrong. kind of, again, they try and see what maybe, again, let’s say how pretty a neurogum is doing and seeing, okay, how can we replicate that strategy straight away? Where again, there’s a lot more that kind of goes into it. So yeah, definitely having the playbook, which kind of gives you the foundation, but then layering on top of that, strategy, because again, it is definitely going to be more specific brand to brand. There’s never going to be a one size fits all right. Cause it’s going to be different variables in terms of, okay.
What’s the how many samples can a brand send out? What’s their cogs look like? they like say, do they need to be profitable? How do they have a budget for retainers? Can they spend aggressively on ads? So again, all these variables will obviously just kind of add into what you can do from a strategy perspective.
Moritz Schröder (17:26.278)
how have you seen your strategy evolve over time? You started back in 2023, now it’s two, two and a half years later, surely a lot has happened with TikTok Shop since then. What have you changed up? What did work back well in the past, but now it doesn’t work anymore? Can you give us a little bit of insights into how you’re seeing the strategy of succeeding on TikTok Shop changes over time?
Ashley (17:33.549)
You
Ashley (17:52.46)
Yeah, I think it just continues to change. Like say on a monthly basis. Now I’ll kind of like say, reiterate back to the situation where again, launching on the platform eight, even 18 months ago, it’s not easy, right? Because again, you could just use a outreach bar. You could message creators, you’d get a response. They’ll promote your product. Right. Whereas again, now I think that the platform is definitely moving to more of a pay to play side of things where again, like I mentioned, it was a lot easier to get content to go viral because getting it organic.
Growth was definitely there. Whereas again, now I think it’s definitely flipped the switch that you do. You will get some concept go viral organically, but then you do need to actually spending on ads to get that to push. And at the same time with creators, creators is not going to be influenced by just obviously a high commission, right? They obviously want to be paid per post or paid on a retainer basis. So again, all this stuff has definitely changed along the way in terms of being able to kind of get scale on the actual platform. And again, like I say, you have
Previously you had obviously ads manager where it’s now you’ve got GMV max. So again, it’s definitely easy from a GMV max perspective, but again, there’s still a science behind it, which again, I feel like brands and agencies are a little bit slow. think, okay, let’s just turn GMV max on and it kind of will work. And then it’s kind of happy days where there’s still definitely a science that goes in into that as well. So I think they’re definitely the moving parts. And again, separately, you’ve got your, your tick tock lives, right? Again, lives is not going to be perfect for.
every brand. And again, some brands are wanting to jump onto live before doing anything else. Where personally, I think you need to have some traction on the platform before they naturally lives will make sense. So again, there’s always these caveats. And again, it’s always moving because Tik Tok are always, always moving the goalposts right again, like I say, 12 months ago, their focus was on affiliates, whereas now their focus is more on live shopping. So again, you’ve got to always kind of just stay up to up to speed with everything. And again, like say earlier on this year, you had
subscriptions come along. Do you want me to again, there’s always moving parts on the platform that again, if you can stay ahead of the curve, then again, it will allow you to kind of be able to get great results on the platform.
Moritz Schröder (19:53.098)
I find it so interesting to be working with a platform that is constantly innovating and changing things up.
because it really makes you fall behind if you’re not constantly up to date and constantly working on getting the newest knowledge and finding out what actually works and what doesn’t. On top of that, you have a third party universe that is starting to be built around TikTok Shop as a platform. You mentioned the possibility to automatically reach out to creators. I actually had the co-founder of Yuka AI on recently on the podcast and he spoke
Ashley (20:03.629)
you
Ashley (20:13.645)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley (20:24.567)
Yeah.
Moritz Schröder (20:26.965)
extensively about that. And I think it’s just the beginning of what we’re gonna see with TikTok Shop evolving, social commerce as a whole really. I think it’s a super fascinating time because it’s evolving so quickly and right before our eyes.
Ashley (20:41.269)
I agree. Yeah, definitely. Social commerce, again, TikTok shop is just a sliver of it. And again, I feel that it’s going to be still so much to, to come. I can say, like you mentioned, obviously, like platforms like Youka continue to develop. I remember using Youka again this time last year compared to now, and it’s come such a long way. Right. So again, the platforms, not showing TikTok shop moving, but again, the platforms that are kind of supporting the TikTok shop growth also starting to move in the right direction as well.
Moritz Schröder (21:08.132)
What kind of clients do you see do best on TikTok shop generally? Is it possible to say that even or can anyone succeed as long as they follow certain rules?
Ashley (21:19.469)
Yeah, personally, and some people might think differently, but I personally think most brands can succeed on the platform. I just think there’s a few things that go into it, right? I think that say the strategy, like say it’s not a one size fits all again, like I’m speaking to a brand yesterday, they sell like jewelry. And again, obviously that strategy will be different to a brand, maybe selling, like I say, a $20 eyeliner, for example. So again, brands can succeed. And again,
success is going to be different to each and every brand as well. Right. Cause again, I kind of categorize it in terms of success in terms of in your category and success in terms of what you want to get from the platform. Right. Because again, a brand who maybe is doing 10 K a month on TikTok shop that might be successful to them, right? Whereas again, another brand might want to be doing 500 K a month. So I definitely think you can be successful. It just depends in terms of what you can put into it. And again, definitely
success comes with time and patience. And again, it’s hard because again, especially if you’re branding, you’re like, say you’re paying maybe whether it’s resources or an agency, you think it’s kind of like a cop out that’s going to take time, but it is realistic. Like I always say, you don’t just open up a shop down the road and think that traffic and sales are going to come right. You have to do a lot to kind of market here. And again, similar to SEO, SEO, don’t just
launch a website, put some backlinks and you can let loads of traffic, right? It does take a lot of time to start for it to start to scale up. But the great thing is with TikTok shop, it’s a momentum game. And again, you can look at any graph that any brand runs, right? It will start like that. And then literally we’ll just take off like a rocket. And the fact is, if you keep putting more into it, it continues to grow, right? So again, that’s a great thing. And that’s why it’s definitely different to any other platform right now. Yes, it’s discovery, but at same time,
The demand is there. And again, we forget also, and we’re not even mentioned yet about that, that halo effect, which is real. So again, like I say, not everyone’s going to necessarily buy straight away on TikTok shop, but they will trickle over to your website. They’ll go to your Amazon. They’ll go to if you’re in retail. And again, the numbers speak for itself. Again, you see any time any brands are doing like big incentives or anything on TikTok shop, the Amazon sales push up as well. So again, it definitely is a case that it is going to continue to grow. And again, momentum definitely plays a big part of that.
Moritz Schröder (23:30.413)
With you being based in the UK, I think that’s a very interesting case because UK was relatively early to TikTok shop. Do you see the market maturing or do you feel like it’s still very early days? Like how mainstream is TikTok shop in the UK these days?
Ashley (23:48.078)
Yeah, I think it’s definitely still maturing for us as an agency, even though I’m in UK and majority of our clients are US based by 8 % US and again, like 20 % mix up of like say UK and Europe. I think it’s definitely a place that is, it’s definitely getting stronger. And I think what will happen is now is there’s two ways of looking at it, right? I feel like once more.
enterprise brands start to come onto the platform. That’s kind of the next kind of phase, I think, because again, once you start to get your, your retailers, your high street brands coming on and doing it properly, that’s going to obviously bring more people to it. It’s going to bring more audience to it as well. But that obviously takes time because again, I feel like especially within the UK, there’s a lot of
sign off. So again, you might speak to a brand, but then they’ve got to get sign off from maybe a CMO, then maybe a founder, then maybe finance. And again, these processes do take maybe six to 12 months, right? So again, I do think going into 2026, there will be more of an evolution that the bigger brands will start to understand that, okay, we need this to be.
part of our marketing mix. might not necessarily be like the number one or two driver, but we need to kind of have it to kind of stay ahead of the game. But again, it takes time again. Anything with adoption always takes time. But again, I feel like we are now starting to see the bigger brands in the UK come on the platform. Like you’ve got your L’Oreal, you’ve even got Shock Ninja coming on from the US. You see all start to see these brands coming on the platform, which again is going to make it.
Make it better for everyone. But again, like I say, there’s no time. If you are small brand, the time is now to kind of start. you should do have that advantage for the bigger brands to do start to launch on the platform.
Moritz Schröder (25:20.664)
It’s also interesting for people who have been working with e-comm for a longer period of time that history repeats itself, right? I mean, we saw that with Amazon, first it was kind of frowned upon and cheap stuff sell from China and now everybody’s on Amazon. Obviously same happened with Shopify. First it was very small dropshipper using Shopify to sell their stuff. They had like two SKUs and that was their website. Now…
Ashley (25:27.777)
Mm.
Moritz Schröder (25:45.277)
every large brand pretty much is run on Shopify. So I think it takes some time, but in the long run, we’re gonna get there with TikTok Shop and social commerce as well. So it’s really cool to see brands like L’Oreal being at the very forefront of that. And it’s gonna be interesting to see how that plays out in 2026. Do you think generally that TikTok Shop has gotten easier or harder in the last couple of years for you as an agency and also for brands coming on? Because
Ashley (25:48.065)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley (25:55.605)
Yeah.
Ashley (26:03.394)
Yeah.
Moritz Schröder (26:14.474)
On the one hand, it’s getting more mainstream, probably more people are willing to buy through TikTok shop and it doesn’t really have that stigma as much anymore as at the very beginning. At the same time, it’s getting more crowded, right? It’s getting more competitive, probably the ROI is going down over time. So what can you see from your day-to-day work with your clients there?
Ashley (26:35.585)
Yeah, I think it’s definitely harder for brands who are looking to get started. it’s kind of a two-pronged answer. say I think brands who looking to get started on their own, it’s definitely harder because again, it does take a lot of resources because again, you…
a brand will need to invest, I personally think in terms of one person managing this whole kind of thing, because again, you can’t just maybe have it like someone who you’re in front of the market doing it part time, you need someone solely focused on it, because again, there are so many moving parts, right, you’ve got like say, the affiliate execution part takes a massive part of that. And then again, it’s not just the finding the affiliates, it’s obviously then briefing them, it’s obviously team to work with them and obviously retaining them, right. So again, that in itself is a job to kind of do and then if you’re all going to be doing lives, you kind of need someone who does the lives. So again, I feel like
or brands who are getting started, it’s definitely harder to do it on their own. And I’m not saying it can’t be done. It just depends on what scale you want to kind of do it at. that’s kind of the first part of it. But then in terms of like for more established agencies, I think it’s definitely hard, but I think at same time, because…
If you are working with multiple brands, you can see what works. You can start to see the signals a lot quicker. You have the creators that you’ve worked with on other brands as well, which you can kind of plug into other brands as well. So again, I think it definitely can still be done, but at the same time from our perspective, anyway, we are more selective with brands in terms of, okay.
Yeah, again, like I mentioned earlier, I think most brands can succeed on the platform, but you still need to tick a lot of boxes, right? In terms of, I said, you need to know what you want from the platform itself. Like I say, if it is LTV, whether it is, you need to be all right straight away. You need to have some sort of budget, right? And again, you need to be able to send out personally, I think you want to be sending out close to like at least 500 samples per month. If you can’t do that.
Ashley (28:18.573)
I’m not saying you can’t succeed in the platform. It’s just going to take a lot longer because again, the main thing is you want to be able to get data as quickly as possible. So you can optimize on that because I could say it is a science. And again, even if you send out 500 samples, you’re going to probably get maybe a 75, 80 % post rate. And then realistically, you normally see it like say under 10 % of creators generate 90 % of the sales. Right. So again, it is all about volume from that side of things. So I think as an agency, it definitely is.
It’s still hard, but again, if you know the numbers, you can see what’s working for other brands. And if you’ve got team who can execute on it, then again, it just make it slightly easier.
Moritz Schröder (28:55.466)
I really like what you just said there that it is a science. I completely agree with that. And it’s an interesting new science because we’ve been playing the social media game for quite some time now, right? You have people who absolutely mastered it, like MrBeast on YouTube, and they optimize for like click through, they optimize for retention and they know that that works with that kind of algorithm, right? But then you have social commerce coming into the mix and…
The rules change a little bit because you’re not optimizing for as many views as possible. You’re optimizing for as much GMV as possible. Can you speak a little bit to what kind of content you see convert best and how that maybe differentiates itself from the content that maybe gets the most views?
Ashley (29:27.798)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley (29:42.156)
Yeah, yeah. And I think again, it’s definitely, it is a mindset shift for brands as well. Cause again, even now we still speak to brands and they sometimes think, the creator we work with, need to be on brand for what we do, for example. And again, I completely understand where they’re coming from with that. But again, with TikTok shop and social commerce, it’s completely different because again, these are everyday people who are trying out your product, right? And again,
what you’ve got to think of is like this, someone could easily go to a shop down the road, buy your product and create a piece of content around it, right? So again, you can’t stop them from not doing that. So again, you’ve got to start to think a little bit outside the box when it, when it comes to that side of things. So with that, I feel like it’s all about just being able to, to find
creators who know how to create good content. And what I mean by good content is that they know obviously how to engage their users. So again, they want to have a good hook. They want to be able to break down the actual products and the benefits for it. And again, they want it to be visual. So again, they’re kind of the main things for it. And again, it’s not about followers. It’s all about people who know how to create good content. Again, from an affiliate standpoint, the good affiliates are the ones that are not trying to do a one hit wonder. They will obviously work with a brand, work with a product, maybe post five, 10 times, knowing that it only takes one video to kind of go.
viral for them to actually make substantial amount of money in the end. It’s all about things. Everything right. It’s all about building the reps, right? The more you focus on one product, the more you understand it, the more you can talk about it with ease. And again, that comes across in the video, right? So again, I always say with brands, they’re the kind of creators you want to work with. And this is why I mentioned earlier as well. That’s why it’s becoming more of a pay to play platform. So again, if you can work for creators, say, look, I want you to post 10 pieces of content. We’ll brief you, we’ll support you. If they’re posting 10 pieces.
That’s more content from that specific creator in the ecosystem that creators can easily then demonstrate or talk about the product lot more comfortably as well. And you’re to probably have more chances of that creator from the 10 videos working more than obviously I say, just sending out 10 samples blindly to other creators. So again, that comes down to the science of it again. It’s not just thinking, oh yeah, I can send out samples because our samples cost us four pound. We can kind of hope you need to kind of hone in and say, okay, well, if maybe we did focus on
Ashley (31:51.822)
10 crates and we maybe pay them retain and then have a hybrid model where we are then having commission separate with other crates is that’s going to probably move the needle quick and then maybe like say just trying to throw stuff against the wall and seeing if something sticks.
Moritz Schröder (32:05.694)
Are there any secret tricks that you see the very best affiliates use that the audience might not even be aware of? And that worked really really well.
Ashley (32:13.907)
yeah, I think, I think the main thing is again, from a perspective, just looking where the
What is viral and what is working right? Because again, you can just take what’s working in one category and put it into another, right? So again, that’s where tools like a fast moss comes into place. Cause you see what videos are viral, which videos are doing well. Or again, there’s, there’s platforms like daily virals where it shows you the top viral videos for the day. Right. And again, from a perspective, from a brand side of things, I would just be looking at the top videos in the category and saying, okay, how can we brief the creates to do something similar with that?
with our product with the same kind of spin. again, it’s just stuff like that that works with, again, trends will always be again here today, gone tomorrow. But again, it’s if you can stay up to date with the trends, like again, one trend right now, obviously time recording this obviously in the health category, there’s like creators who will have like…
two bottles of water, and then they’d be like throwing different stuff into and kind of say, this is what your gut looks like if you do this. And again, it catches attention. gets people like want to watch it. So again, people just see that and they kind of do the same thing, right? So that’s kind of one kind of method. And then again, any brands that have been on like a dragon’s den or a shark tank, that you have that people who just cut that content, have a good hook, then talk about the product. So again, it’s all about just seeing trends, spotting what works over brands and seeing how you can replicate it within your, your brand’s kind of ethos. And obviously
in terms of what you’re selling.
Moritz Schröder (33:39.421)
What kind of categories of products do you see blowing up right now and where do you think this is gonna go next? Which categories do you expect to do really well on TikTok Shop that maybe hasn’t really reached its full potential yet?
Ashley (33:53.453)
Yeah, I think obviously right now, beauty is the go-to right now. You’ve got beauty, which is kind of here. Health is kind of there. And I think you then got a cluster of all the other categories right now that none’s really breaking through. And again, I think that’s just because there is, there’s a lot more to it. Because again, obviously I feel like there are categories, like say that the pet category, which again, I think starting to grow. think there’s the space like the, the, um,
sorry, that the baby industry as well. I there’s obviously categories within that as products within that as well. So again, I think it’s just now, it just needs more brands to kind of come in and kind of take it. And again, I feel like that’s when we start to see that separation a little bit more, because I feel like there was just, if you can see what the brands in the health space do in all the beauty space and kind of like say, put it into the categories that kind of like say underserved right now, then again, you’ll start to see these start to break out going into 2026 for sure.
Moritz Schröder (34:48.007)
I think it’s also really interesting to see how TikTok Shop evolves and matures together with TikTok itself, right? I mean, it really just came onto the scene five years ago during the pandemic. So all its users pretty much were very young at the time. They were doing their dances and whatnot. And now we see, as you just mentioned, products like baby-related things.
blowing up because people are getting older and because it’s not only the 13 year olds on the platform anymore. Hopefully those are not the ones buying baby related stuff. So as the audience matures, you also have a different kind of audience to sell to, right? And the products will come with it.
Ashley (35:28.524)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. And that’s the thing as well, just to kind of like add to that as well. feel like again, some brands are stuck in the kind of mindset that they think that their audience is not on the platform, right. But realistically they are. Again, you see a lot of people like say 30 plus who are spending on the, on the platform as well. So again, it definitely, if your audience has a mobile phone, the likelihood is that the majority of them will probably be on TikTok or will be on there within the near future. Again, and they might not necessarily be buying through TikTok shop right now, but they might be seeing your content on TikTok shop and then they might remember
you and I say go shop on Amazon shop your website. So again, definitely need to be thinking more outside the box rather than tunnel vision about TikTok and TikTok shop.
Moritz Schröder (36:10.704)
You mentioned it before the halo effect, right? You can see it happening again and again, but it’s very difficult to attribute that. And I think that’s why TikTok shop is still flying a little bit under the radar because people might be seeing their sales going up on Amazon on their Shopify web store, but they might not necessarily link it to content doing really well on TikTok. Do you have to educate your clients sometimes on things like this, or do they all reach out to you?
Ashley (36:15.468)
Again, again.
Ashley (36:23.178)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley (36:34.175)
Exactly.
Moritz Schröder (36:40.848)
pretty aware of what TikTok shop can do for them and just how powerful it will be.
Ashley (36:45.888)
Yeah, I think it’s a mixture. think some obviously don’t understand, but some do. And I think the more we have like case studies as a whole within TikTok shop, where again, you see the brands that are actually speaking about it as well. think it sounds better when it comes from actual brands because they see it rather than obviously us as agency owners saying it because then they might, brands might think, you’re just saying that because obviously it’s a thing. I think once brands start to see other brands saying, okay, there is actually a halo effect. I think that’s what kind of strikes.
Accord more and again, like say it definitely is there again. You can look at any time, like say when golly does a big incentive. And again, if you look at like Amazon, like third party tools, like jungle scout and stuff, see a spike in their sales, right? So again, it definitely is there. And I think it’s just the fact that you might not necessarily be able to measure it. Like I say, like apples, first apples, but again, he definitely knows that it does help support the rest of your marketing channel mix.
Moritz Schröder (37:39.589)
What are some of the wildest success stories that you have seen happening with your clients?
Ashley (37:45.601)
Gosh, I’m…
All sorts really again, obviously we had one of our clients did a 12 hour live did about they did 300 K in GMV and in terms of that side of things, we actually we’ve got brands we work with now we’re doing comfortably 500 K plus a month right now. So again, it’s there are definitely moments that happen in terms of like you get spikes in terms of campaigns. And I think it’s just all about how you can continue to, to ride the wave as well. Right. Again, when you have a piece of content that does well, how you can try and replicate
to continue to have that momentum. again, it’s great because again, once you can, kind of, to a sense it’s kind of a relief when obviously brands start to see that it’s working for them. Because again, I think in this space, if it works for a brand, they will stay on the platform. They will obviously stay with us as an agency as well as you can imagine. They can obviously tell other brands not only to work with us, but same time to get on TikTok shop. Because I think that’s what is needed right now. I think it just needs more.
social proof from brands speak to other brands to get obviously them all onto the platform for it to kind of continue to elevate to the next level.
Moritz Schröder (38:51.62)
been speaking to quite a few agency owners already. And it seems like even in that group of people who are really bought into social commerce and bought into TikTok shop, it’s divided between liking and not really believing into live shopping. What’s your take on live shopping and do you see it successfully working for your clients on a consistent basis or is it still hit and miss?
Ashley (39:18.508)
Yeah, I think live shopping is still more to come from it personally. think it definitely, I wouldn’t say it’s hit or miss. I think like I mentioned before, I think that as a brand, you don’t want to do live shopping straight away on TikTok shopping. think that right now, personally, I think that TikTok’s motive is to push brands to do lives. It might be too early for some of the brands, because I think personally, a brand needs to be established on the platform, maybe doing about 20 to 30K.
continual before lives that makes sense because again, when you think of all the, the resource and costs that goes into a live, right? Whether again, just thinking again, two ways about it. If you’re a brand trying to do a live in house, you have to find a host or you have to find someone internally to do it. You need to have a set. And then again, somebody needs to be going live maybe two, three hours every two or three days. Right? So again, that comes at a cost, right? And again, you need to see a return from it. And again, you need to be doing
heavy discounting right now, I think definitely makes lives work. So again, it can be done. It just needs to be a different strategy behind it. And again, strategy we see work on lives for our brands right now is again, you want to have a product or some sort of bundle that they can only get within that live, right? Again, you don’t want to just be having your normal products at full price where when they turn off the live, they can go buy it on your website or they can obviously go and buy it from TikTok shop. You want to have something that is there and there. again,
Let’s say just hypothetically, like especially going into Q4 right now, obviously bundles and obviously gifting is going to be a big thing. So again, having like specific gifting bundles, which again, keeps your AOV high and then you can maybe discount it down. And again, once it’s gone, it’s gone. Maybe it’d be obviously available on next live, but they can only get it when they actually joined the lives. That’s the kind of tricks that you want to be kind of doing on lives for it to work. And again, you need to kind of figure out, okay, what does our ROI look like from a live as well? Because again, let’s just say,
hypothetically a live could cost maybe around a hundred or $150 when you kind of factor in per hour, which factor in your moderator, your host, your studio, how all that side of stuff. You want to at least be breaking even on that or at least make it say three or five times that. So again, they’re the numbers you can need to be calculating for life to make sense. So I definitely lives are good. We’ve got, like I say, lot of brands who are doing really successfully, successful with lives, but at the same time, I think it just means that you need to just be patient with life. Cause again,
Ashley (41:36.685)
That first month will also be a little bit bleak with live because again, you’re trying to find the algorithms should find the right users. You need to find the right time. You need to find your host. And again, once your host, you want them to be trained up and obviously comfortable with doing it right. And then again, it’s all about optimizing month two in terms of like for certain times, certain products, certain bundles, stuff along the lines of that. And then month three is when you start to see it take off. So I think definitely lives have got a place, but then at the same time as well.
It’s also educating users on the platform to be able to shop through live as well. Right. Because again, there’s only a certain amount of inventory in terms of users who are going to be on lives versus obviously on the overall platform as well. So again, we need obviously more users on the live side of things for then obviously brands lives to be able to continue to take off.
Moritz Schröder (42:20.643)
Yeah, it seems like there are a lot of variables that need to kind of align for a company or a client of yours to have a successful life session and then to be able to replicate that continuously and continuously drive GMV through it. I recently spoke to a live shopping expert that has been living in China for 20 plus years.
Obviously China is a very different market from the Western countries, but as I’m sure you’re aware China is absolutely dominated by live shopping. Close to 60 % of all e-commerce revenue generated in the entire country of like 1.3 billion people is generated through live shopping. It’s absolutely massive there. So it’s going to be interesting to see how that plays out here in the West and if it can come anywhere close to where it is in Asia already.
Ashley (43:09.004)
Yeah, I think it’s definitely, I think it will get there. Cause again, I’d say, I know when like in China, you can go to maybe like say a night store or Lou Vuitton store and you’ve got obviously them actually live within the actual store. So it’s kind of an event happening there. So I think it will head to that situation. I know obviously now in Santa Monica, you’ve got our landers, you’ve got like the big space that they’ve got where they’ve got lives going on as well. So I think there will be a time where it will continue to move to that, especially like I say, when you go.
down obviously like say London Oxford Circus where you do have a lot of empty spaces now as well. again, I feel like there’s definitely opportunity for that to happen whether it is brands who are kind of adding that into the mix or again, it just kind of is the space. Because again, like I say in China, you can have like a big shopping mall where it’s literally just all lives continue to going on. So again, I think we are a little bit away from that still, but again, that’s obviously where the market probably will end up moving towards.
Moritz Schröder (44:01.55)
Yeah, especially with so many people already buying from their homes. And as you said, a lot of vacancies after COVID are still out there. It only makes sense if that was…
Ashley (44:06.476)
Mm-hmm.
Moritz Schröder (44:13.454)
to be repurposed through live shopping if it actually takes off the way that it potentially could. And I’ve seen Gary Vee, for example, pushing this really hard. I mean, he’s investor in whatnot. So I think he’s to some extent biased there, but I would like to see him actually be right on this one because I for one, I’m really into that idea. And I think it could be a great opportunity for a lot of people.
Ashley (44:19.53)
Yeah.
Moritz Schröder (44:37.806)
Where do you see the puck go in for the next five years in terms of social commerce? What trends do you see and what do you think we can expect from social commerce and also TikTok shop, live shopping in the next five years?
Ashley (44:53.004)
Yeah, I still feel like say we are still very early to do it to tick tock shop and obviously social commerce, right? I feel like a lot of people still not even aware what tick tock shop is, let alone what social commerce is, right? So I think we are still right at the beginning. Again, even might speak to people of age zone. As I say, we do tick tock shop. They’re like, Oh wow, what is that? Do you mean? So again, I think we are very, very early from that side of things. So I think.
There’s still a long way to go with TikTok shop. Obviously TikTok shops now launching into new Geos obviously started this year. Obviously now we’re in obviously like Germany, France, Italy, Spain, obviously look to be in Poland, Australia, obviously it’s in Mexico. So again, I think TikTok shop as a whole is going to continue to grow from that side of things. Obviously the good news, obviously with the U S it looks like it’s, it’s not going to be bad now as well. So I think that
That as a whole, think maybe it kind of was stopping some brands to kind of maybe go fully committed to the platform. Where I think now once that’s kind of signed and sealed, think you’ll see a lot more US brands kind of like committing. Because again, brands I speak to, they’re kind of like, yeah, we want to try it, we’ll maybe wait to see what kind of happens. Again, it’s kept getting extended. So again, I think we’ll see an influx from that side of things. And like I said, this is just talking from a TikTok shop side of things, right? But then again, I do think there will be like say your, your what not. And again, I do think other platforms will continue
to kind of add it to the mix, where again, it’s like your, I think what not’s a good example, because I feel like that’s what not and maybe like a eBay where again, people can literally just go and if Gary V said this previously as well, that people can literally just go to their wardrobe and kind of pull out something and say, does someone want to buy this? Here’s the price right now. Someone can literally buy there and there. again, platforms like eBay or like you D-Pop in the UK, I think they’ll start to kind of add that life shopping element into the mix. And again, I do think there’ll be.
layers upon layers within like say your your Amazon maybe like say Meta probably you maybe think that they would develop something to social commerce I know it’s obviously not going to be as big
Ashley (46:47.196)
move a form because obviously their revenue comes off from ads, right? But I do think they still will add a layer into it. Same with Google. think obviously with YouTube, YouTube shopping, that’s that is there right now. So again, it is a thing. And again, I think that will continue to improve as well. So again, I think we are definitely very early. And again, once the other platforms start to see it and start to jump on it, or again, other platforms might come out as well and do it again. Obviously we had Flip that came out, but obviously Flip then obviously kind of bankrupt. So again, we are still early. And again, I think there’s going to be lots of ups and downs.
it will be a roller coaster. But I think the main moving parts will actually be the life shopping element. And I do think that the creator side of things will definitely continue to be a thing. Because again, creators and affiliate side of things, it’s nothing new, right? Affiliate marketing has been around for decades, right? And same as influence has been around for decades, just kind of combining them together. So again, I think having that mix, but across other platforms as well, that will continue to grow as well. And then yeah, who else knows what will happen over the next.
12 months, let alone the next five years, right? There’s still so much to come.
Moritz Schröder (47:50.166)
What do you think could be a potential blocker for TikTok Shop to become even bigger? And do you see any mistakes that they might be doing that you as an agency owner and with daily contact to clients and affiliates can spot maybe better than they can even internally?
Ashley (48:07.788)
I think right now, I think as a platform, again, as soon as when Amazon started, right, I think they need to cut down, obviously, the counterfeit and obviously the like cheap knockoff products. think that’s obviously still a big part where you can, you speak to some brands and they see their product being ripped off. So I think that’s definitely a part that needs to be done a little bit more. think as well, they are supporting, like I say,
Again, their motive is to kind of push lives again. think they kind of need to just be letting brands know that again, lives is one part of it. But again, you still want to be doing your organic side, your affiliate side. And again, they don’t want to kind of lose that because again, like we mentioned earlier, life’s just take a big investment. can maybe throw some brands off. did speak to one brand a few months ago and they obviously ticked up pushing to do lives quite aggressively. They tried it, it didn’t work. And then they kind of thought, well, tick tock doesn’t work for us. Where again, it’s probably because they didn’t have the right strategy or maybe forced to kind of do it. So again,
I just think they need to just be careful in terms of what they are promising and obviously telling brands to do as well on the platform from that side of things. then, yeah, and I think just in terms of also just being realistic with brands and like I say, just letting them know that, yes, it does take a lot of time, a lot of effort. think right now where the sticking part is.
a lot of brands will see these massive case studies, especially say in the UK, like your, your P. Louise or you made by Mitchell and every brand fixing kind of get to them levels, right? Where realistically probably 95 % brands will never get to them kind of level. again, I think it’s just being realistic with brands to be able to, make their expectations realistic. again, like I say, it can be a channel that can be very lucrative, but at the same time, it does take a lot of resources to kind of go into it.
Moritz Schröder (49:48.395)
believe that’s also a trait that makes you as an agency owner more credible. If you talk to your clients and actually set realistic expectations, you need to be able to tell them that, most likely you’re not gonna be in the 0.1 percentile of success stories on TikTok Shop, right? You can make a very good income here, but it’s most likely not gonna be like the absolute top of the top.
Ashley (50:06.348)
Mm-hmm.
Moritz Schröder (50:17.574)
unless you’re willing to do whatever it takes to get there. So do you have a lot of clients that hear these success stories and then approach you and say, hey, I wanna be the next P. Louise or whatever, or do they all approach you knowing that this is something that they have to play the long game on?
Ashley (50:36.492)
I think it’s definitely a mixture. again, that’s why from our perspective, like say, we’ve just transparent with them and I say that, like I said, the realest, the realest of it is you probably won’t get to them levels. And again, every brand that we take on, like say we, we build out like a forecast for them before we actually take them on as well. So they can see, okay, and black and white, okay, what the next 12 months looks like. And again,
nine times out of 10, it might not be profitable for the first three months, right? Because again, if you are investing heavily in terms of with your creators, whether you’re like say your commission rates, and again, this is where a lot of brands go wrong. Because again, they don’t think of the overall cost that kind of goes into it, right? Because again, yes, you’re sending out samples that comes at a cost from a COGS perspective, a shipping perspective. Then again, you can give a commission, you want to be on the higher end to begin with to make it attractive. You want to do discounts on your product, right? So realistically,
you’re losing quite a big chunk. And then if you hire an agency on top of that, that’s also another cost, right? So again, we break it down to them and say, okay, yes, you want to get to these levels, these first three months you might be losing.
to free grind. So again, every three months you might be 10K in the red, but then it does start to come up. So do you want to kind of commit to this and can you go to these levels? If they say yes, then they see it in black and white. They see where we are today and how we’re going to get to where’s again, I feel like a lot of brands will just kind of just start, not look at the numbers and then be like, three months down the line, we sent out a lot of samples. It’s not worked. It’s kind of quit. again, it’s definitely a learning curve. And again, I feel that expectations need to be.
set with the brand and the brand themselves as well. again, even sometimes we do speak to brands, let them know it’s going to be three months. They may not then also share that message with the internal team, right? So again, say we’re speaking with a CMO, but then the CEO is like, why is it not working? So again, I think that message needs to then be also reiterated to the rest of team that it does take a bit more time than expected. It doesn’t mean that it’s not working. It just means that it might just take a little bit more time to take off.
Moritz Schröder (52:29.502)
What is the biggest myth that you consistently hear about TikTok shop and that everybody gets wrong? Is there something you would like to rectify with everyone hearing and thinking about TikTok shop?
Ashley (52:42.236)
Um, I think the main thing still to the day that the one of the biggest myth is that like say you can just set and forget the platform where again, I feel like you need to be in it daily. think it’s like say, I feel like with meta now it’s a lot more easy. You put creatives in it. You kind of can just leave it for a little while. Right. Whereas I feel like with tick tock shop, you kind of need to be.
You need to be doing something daily, right? Whether it is like say you check your samples, working with the creators, coming up with new concepts, posting organically. Do you know what mean? There’s always a lot of moving parts to it. So again, I say the resource side of it, I think people do not understand. So again, I feel like that one of the biggest myths is that you can’t just throw some samples out there and hope it works. There needs to be a strategy behind it for it to actually make sense. And at the same time,
You do have to invest. You know what mean? It is an investment. Again, I feel like some brands kind of living off like say that 2023 kind of mental in terms of like, yo, we can send some samples out, some might go viral. We obviously make a million on TikTok shop. That is not the case, right? You can’t just get away with just sending out samples, trying to give credit to the high commission and think it’s going to work. There’s a lot more that goes into the strategy in this day and age.
Moritz Schröder (53:51.1)
You have to be consistent and you actually have to commit to the platform. It’s not a set it and forget it approach with TikTok.
Ashley (53:54.518)
You do.
Yeah, you have to be 100 % in. can’t be just one foot sitting on the fence because if that’s the case, I personally think there’s no point trying to do it because you won’t do it right.
Moritz Schröder (54:06.96)
One thing that I find super fascinating about social commerce is that it’s a new way for creators to monetize their content, right? And essentially become their own shop in a way that they are selling products, right? Even though they do it as affiliate oftentimes, or they do it through lives.
Do you see that as a viable way of monetizing content consistently or is it that you have peak months and then things go down again? What is your experience working with affiliate creators? Can they make a living off of it if they’re good or do they have to, you know, save on the good months because they know they’re going to have a bad month soon again?
Ashley (54:50.763)
Yeah, I think same as any part of e-commerce, right? You’re going to have your, your, your high months. You can have your low months, right? Obviously like Q4 is obviously going to be bigger for most brands and Q1 is going to be right. So again, I think it’s the same with creators. And again, obviously the creator we work with, they do have dips again, that’s going to be normal because whether again, the algorithm change or they have a violation or some long lines of that. But again, if you are an affiliate and you do put the work in, you can make some, some seriously good money from that. And again, we know a lot of creators that do really well from it. And sometimes I think we’re in the wrong.
wrong side of the actual, of the, of the pool here in terms of that. But again, like say, if you are willing to do it and again, you just need to understand again from an affiliate side of things that there is a science to it. And again, where, again, I feel like a lot of creators still go wrong because there to be a creator, it’s so easy. Cause again, you can literally just create an account, have a few followers and start to post. And again, that does kind of make it a little bit.
Harden some brands when they see like again a creator gets a product from them. They unbox it They’ve got really poor lighting and again, it doesn’t really do anything So again, you are going to probably get 90 % of creators are going to be like that. Whereas the 10 % of creators They will have their their room set up. They’ll have good lighting. They’ll have their scripts They’ll be creating 10 20 pieces of content a day till something hits So it definitely same as anything the the work you put in you will get out from it And again, I feel like we are going to see I personally think in q4 we will see some creators who will be making
off their commission, maybe like say 200, half a million. don’t see why they wouldn’t be able to do that in this peak month, especially now as well with how GMV max is moving that again, GMV max will obviously just push towards the content that obviously does well. There’s no reason why if you can’t just that create good piece of content and make sales, you’ll be able to scale it to the moon.
Moritz Schröder (56:38.236)
And it’s cool to hear that the things that make good content generally, and that does well on YouTube, does well on Instagram, does well on TikTok, is also the content that generally tends to sell well. On top of that, you do have to have good hooks, you do have to know a little bit about sales, even though it’s different than direct sales. But as you mentioned, good lighting, making sure that the camera angle is good. Those are things that we’ve been…
been aware for 10 plus years, right? Anyone who has watched YouTube in the last decade knows that this is what does well on platforms that focus on video content. So if you have mastered that and if you understand those basic principles, you can do very well within social commerce as well.
Ashley (57:23.531)
Yeah, 100%. There’s always going to be a structure, right? And again, like I say, it’s just whoever can figure out that structure and then how they can then go above and beyond that structure in terms, like I say, with your hook, not necessarily having like a call out hook, but making it more visual in terms of that side of things. And again, being comfortable in terms of being able to promote the product with your eyes closed, basically to that degree. They’re the creators that you see in them top the charts.
every single month in terms of no matter what product they promote, they know what goes into it for them to actually create a good revenue for the brand and for for themselves.
Moritz Schröder (57:57.007)
If you had a buddy of yours who said he wants to become an affiliate creator, he wants to quit his job that he doesn’t like, and he wants to go all in on affiliate creation, what would your advice to him be? Should he do it? Should he not? Should he do it on the side first?
Ashley (58:09.161)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would say try on the side first, because again, you just need to be able to be consistent with it’s the main thing. And again, it’s similar, like I from Brian’s perspective, right. As a creator, might post something today and it might not necessarily get traction till two, three months down the line. Right. So again, it’s just putting in.
those reps where again, you may be just saying, I’m going to put two hours aside per day. And that can consist of like say finding the right product, concepting, recording, and just be consistent with it. And then once it starts to work, then you can obviously start to make some good money from it. So yeah, I definitely would recommend anyone who wants to create content or create like a source of income that affiliate marketing from a TikTok shop perspective is definitely doable. And again, it’s also
looking at there’s many ways of doing it right you can be obviously on the camera you can do faceless you can do ai so again there are different ways to be able to do it as well so you don’t need necessarily be somebody who wants to have to be in front of the screen because again i know a lot of people might not want that but again it’s just being able to put in the work and again seeing that it can be done because the results speak for themselves
Moritz Schröder (59:10.648)
It is also very cool that it has such a low barrier of entry. Obviously that leads to more competition on the one side, but on the other hand, you’re able to quite easily do it on the side, even if you have a full-time job. What are some of the maybe dumbest products that you have seen absolutely gone viral? Something that you never would have bet on, but actually did super well on the platform.
Ashley (59:34.825)
gosh.
I can see every day really, right? feel like from my perspective, like I remember this obviously probably maybe last year now, but I think it was like the viral product that was like the nine chest, nine draw chest to draw that went viral. And again, I’m just like, it’s just a draw, right? But again, it just did ridiculous to say in terms of sales. So you’ve got stuff like that. Like I say, we’ve got a brand that sells TVs. We do very well on lives for that. So again, there are so many different products that can just go really well. Obviously again, like
I think the more visual the product, easier it is. Like obviously you’ve got like a lot of beauty products, like, what’s it, Dr. Melanxin right now again, because people can showcase that side of things. So again, they’re going to be able to get a lot more virality and stuff like that. But yeah, I think that there’s just so many different products right now that if you’ve got, it’s all about if the creator can make it work and create good content around it, again, there’s no reason why it can’t work on the platform.
Moritz Schröder (01:00:30.98)
I think we’re.
just at the beginning of entering an era where brands are going to build products specifically with their virality in mind. They’re going to create products that look good on camera, that do very well in terms of social media content. And it’s at the very beginning, it’s very early stages, but I’m sure that that’s where the trend is going to go. That you have products that just have to go viral because of how they look and then the actual product itself and what it can do for you is almost an afterthought.
Ashley (01:01:01.355)
Yeah, definitely. And I think that’s why again, brands, think, again, speaking back on the trends, think brands going forward will probably be creating products specific for social commerce. So again, like I said, whether it’s bundles or specific products, or again, I’m not saying brands are going to be just launching on only TikTok shop, but they might be bigger brands and retail stuff like, but they’re to have particular specific products, which again, I think is going to be the way of again, so we see
Another hack slash tip obviously work really well right now, for example, is when we get good creators for the brands we’re generating good like sales, good revenue, we make them ambassadors, then we create like.
bundles around them. again, let’s say how practically Katie’s done like 200K in GMV, we’ll create a bundle around her like the, the Katie hair bundle in terms of like, it might be a shampoo, a conditioner and a comb for example. So again, I think that’s the way it’s going to move towards where again, like say these are fidgets that are doing really well, rather than having to create their own brands, they will just team up as embasters for the brands and like say have their own bundles or special kind of products within the brands.
Moritz Schröder (01:02:03.98)
Ashley, where do you want people to check out you, your agency? Where do you want to redirect people?
Ashley (01:02:09.643)
Yeah, obviously just search for me on like say LinkedIn, Ashley Wright, obviously our website socialtail.co. And again, like I say, I’m always happy just to help anyone support anyone who has any questions on like say TikTok shop and the whole social commerce sphere that we’re in, in this whole ecosystem, which again is a roller coaster that continues to give.
Moritz Schröder (01:02:30.87)
Awesome. It’s been really cool talking to you. You had so many cool insights to share and I wish you all the best out there.
Ashley (01:02:37.907)
Amazing, absolute pleasure. Thank you for having me.