Guest Bio:
Dawn Chubai is the founder of livesellingschool.com. She has spent years working as a live seller on national Television in Canada, generating 250 Million Dollars in sales in the process. Now she focusses on teaching her clients the skills that are needed to succeed in live selling.
Episode Summary:
In this conversation, Dawn Chubai shares her extensive experience in live shopping, discussing her journey from television to coaching others in the art of selling products live. She emphasizes the importance of understanding the audience, building trust, and the balance between entertainment and education in sales. Dawn also highlights the evolving landscape of live shopping, particularly in relation to social media, and offers insights into effective selling techniques and strategies for success in this growing field.
Main Takeaways:
- Dawn generated over 250 million in revenue through live shopping.
- She emphasizes the importance of focusing on benefits over features.
- Continuous skill development is crucial for success in live selling.
- Building trust with the audience is essential to reduce returns.
- Product knowledge and research are key to effective selling.
- Engaging the audience with hooks can significantly improve sales.
- The seller’s personality and style can greatly influence conversion rates.
- Live shopping is a marketing channel with sales attached.
- Understanding the psychology of the buyer is vital for effective selling.
- The future of live shopping is promising, with increasing integration into social commerce.
Full Transcript:
Moritz Schröder (00:01.289)
Okay. I’m here with Dawn Chubai I’m super excited to talk to her. Not only has Dawn been working in live shopping for many years, she has actually been working on it on national television. She has generated well over 250 million in revenue through her live streams across many years, many outlets. I’m super excited to have her on. Dawn, welcome.
Dawn Chubai (00:28.782)
thank you so much for having me.
Moritz Schröder (00:33.982)
Dawn, I wanna get into all the different stages of your career. Now you’re coaching people, you’re still doing live selling yourself, but let’s start at the very beginning. What got you interested in live shopping in the first place?
Dawn Chubai (00:48.45)
Well, I will say I kind of fell into it and it sort of has been a bit of a theme throughout my career. So 25 years ago, yes, I will age myself, I ended up falling into the television industry through my music. So I used to be a jazz singer. I used to do musical theater and I would appear on a local morning show way back when to promote my gigs and my CD. Fast forward to a…
few years after that and they had asked me to audition as the the Weather Girl back when we called it Weather Girl. Now I think it’s Weather Presenter now is the proper way to say it. And so I basically worked in television nationally hosting a real estate show, cooking show and of course Canada’s number one morning show. And it was about eight years ago that my husband and I we moved different provinces. So we were in Vancouver and we moved to Toronto.
And it just so happened that that’s where the shopping channel in Canada was located. So somewhat like QVC or HSN. And I was very fortunate enough to be able to sort of slide right into a role at the shopping channel, where essentially, as you know, is sort of the, I’m going to say that the beginning of what live shopping would become. So 50 years, live shopping has been around back in the TV home shopping days. And now modern technology, let’s just say has…
enabled me to transform that into a career now as a coach and a performance coach and strategist for live shopping.
Moritz Schröder (02:16.496)
And what did that initial audition look like? Was it something that you basically did off the cuff? Did you prepare for it? Was there a part of you where you felt like, this might be actually really a good fit for me, or was it more that you stumbled into it?
Dawn Chubai (02:33.258)
Well, it’s interesting because I had been used to working on television and in particular live television for, you know, well over a decade at that point. So there’s a certain amount of improv that, you know, I was very capable of doing and a certain amount of preparation that a TV host has to do for various interviews, both in studio and on location. But when I had an opportunity to audition for the shopping channel was interesting because they said, pick a product, any product and
present and so obviously as a host when one of the things that you do and it’s always good advice and best practices for anyone trying something is do your research right so not only research the product but also research you know what it’s like to present a product and often it is by watching people who have done it long before you so I chose a set of pots and pans paderno pots and pans and I had watched
Moritz Schröder (03:24.199)
You
Dawn Chubai (03:26.508)
you know, TV home shopping to kind of figure out the energy and all of that. And I bring a certain natural energy and you want to always bring your own authenticity, of course, to the table. But I, you know, I made sure I knew the stats and I made sure I knew, you know, how many pieces and I made, you know, where’s it made and what kinds of things can you do? And one of the best tips that I was given before submitting my audition is to focus less on the features and more on the benefits. So less on the fact that, you know, this so let’s say it was a blow dryer.
these were pots and pans, but I always like to say if this was a blow dryer, the wattage of a blow dryer really only matters if you can explain to it in how it’s going to benefit the shopper or the person purchasing. So is it going to dry your hair faster? Is it going to save the quality of your hair? In the case of the pots and pans, how I would sell that is imagine all the great meals that you can make with this Dutch oven, for instance, or imagine the searer.
you’ll get on your steak without a barbecue, without an open flame when you use this frying pan. And so it was often selling that feature more than the benefits that was a priority. And so I went to the table with that to the shopping channel and yeah, I got the job and you know, was a constant learning curve and constantly preparing and constantly auditing and reevaluating past performances to allow me to sell that $250 million in products over my time there.
Moritz Schröder (04:53.135)
And how did that training on the job look like in more detail? Like you got the job, but you’re still very much inexperienced compared to people who have been doing this for years or maybe even decades. I’m sure there was a steep learning curve. Did you have coaches helping you with it? Or was it more that you just looked what worked for others? How did that look like for you?
Dawn Chubai (05:13.678)
So my process actually involved a few different things. So yes, we had a trainer, but often it was really a lot of it through osmosis. A lot of it was paying attention to what other hosts were doing. So here’s how I did it. When I first started, they had built a morning show around me. It was called Good Morning TSC, and it was very much leveraging my reputation as a morning show host nationally. And so sort of playing on that.
And so often what I would do is I would watch the previous night’s launch. So the launching of our showstoppers. So in some markets, depending on where you are, it might be today’s special value or whatever, whatever that, you hero deal was very limited offer. So because I would be presenting it in the morning and the launch of a product happened the night before, I would always start my morning, which would be beginning at around three in the morning because I was live at seven.
I would often watch at least the opener and a bit of the show the night before just to kind of gauge sort of some of the key selling points and maybe some of the hooks, which are all very salesy terms, but this is what it takes to connect and convert through a screen. So I would often start my prep that way, but and then and then obviously do my show live. That was a routine that I really replicated.
pretty much every day when I worked on the morning show. And then I was pushed to the launch hours, which was considered prime time. So then I would be the person that the person who did the morning show watched. But yeah, to answer your other part of your question, yeah, we did. We would have a coach that would come in usually right before Q4, which is kind of right around now to sort of wrap the year, the important part of the year, which is important for most retail. And it would be often reviewing tape.
it would be putting us through like improv exercises. And that part was really interesting. I challenge, know, sometimes more it’s we hear of like the sell a pen. I remember our coach saying, okay, here’s a necklace. I’m not wearing a necklace today, but that necklace you’re wearing, sell it to me, but not as a necklace. And so I had to get really creative. So I said, and this is on the fly. So she goes like three, two, one, go.
Dawn Chubai (07:27.691)
And I remember, I remember positioning it as obviously a beautiful piece of jewelry, but also this has a hidden camera in it. So, you know, taking it to your first date and being able to live stream through it and being able to have your friends gauge whether this would be a good match for you. So yeah, I mean, I was always quick on my feet that way. And so that was part of the coaching. And it’s something that you have to continue on with Moritz is continuing to develop.
never making assumptions that you’re perfect. And I’ve kind of gone through my whole career like that, just constantly looking at what can I do better?
Moritz Schröder (08:03.109)
It sounds like it was really at the beginning a grind in the sense that you were willing to get up at three and do your research and really hustling and then just continue to improve through coaching, through observing what works for others. But then probably it also comes to a point where you have to find your own style, right? And you have to find what really makes you unique as a seller and what connects best with your audience. How long did that take for you to actually find your own groove?
Dawn Chubai (08:33.217)
Well, I would say that my own groove never was gone from the pictures. So because I had been used to being that bright and sunny and cheery person, which obviously in morning television, and I think that’s kind of a global thing. think everywhere around the world, people watch morning television to get amped up, to get excited about the day.
No one wants to be depressed first thing in the morning. People want to be motivated. They want a little bit of aspiration. So I brought that to the table naturally. And even when I fell into the TV business, that was something that I was always able to bring naturally. What I would say the learning curve was, you know, understanding the sales techniques as much as anything, you know, me coming to the table and to camera and on set bright and cheery and bushy eyed and
bright-tailed or bright-eyed and bushy-tailed. That came naturally, but it was navigating essentially a sales process and what I have since developed and really cultivated into a very structured live shopping method with my students and with my live selling school. That’s the thing that took a bit of time and it always does, Moritz, because it is that fine balance in particular with live shopping and this is whether it’s television or…
know, TikTok shop or live shopping on whatever platform anyone is on, which I always recommend people use their own IP if they can and leverage some of the other tools that are out there. But it’s understanding that it’s a fine balance between the entertainment and the education and then ultimately understanding that you still have the goal of driving to a purchase. So, you know, that always takes a little bit of time. But, you know, after almost eight years doing it,
I managed to find a system that worked for me and frankly works for other people that I work with as well.
Moritz Schröder (10:20.984)
So it’s become pretty much second nature to you by now coming from being entertaining on television to then also being able to slowly but surely funnel people into the purchase. Looking at your colleagues and I’m sure you talked a lot amongst each other, what works and what doesn’t and how to best convert. Is there certain other certain things that you notice from the top selling people on your network that just works better than what other people did?
Like what did the best sellers have that others maybe just didn’t have?
Dawn Chubai (10:54.675)
Yeah, would say honestly, it’s again, everybody’s got their own style. So it’s hard for me to say what someone maybe didn’t do right. But what I can speak to is that the top sellers and I was kind of in that in that peak, were, know, usually it’s it’s people that are in that top tier are like the launch hosts. So, you know, I was pushed into launch mode very quickly. I remember starting, you know, obviously hosting on the morning show, which was Good Morning TSC.
But I think we had one of our hosts call in sick and I was quickly catapulted into launching possibly before they had typically done the usual onboarding like the, guess not so much the pressure tactics, but the, Hey, you know, there’s a lot of pressure when you’re launching. didn’t have that fear put into me because frankly there wasn’t enough time for someone to sort of build it up in that way. But I would say, you know, a launch host is very particular in, in how they open a show.
And by a launch host, let’s just now say to what you were saying, like a top tier host, you know, to be able to understand how important that first introduction into the event, into the live event is, because you really do only have that one opportunity to catch people right out of the gate when people know there’s something exciting and they’re going to hear what that deal is. So to start, what I like to say is, you know, having that hook, that welcome. One of my signature strategies, it was verbally also
but often I would incorporate some sort of physical elements. And I learned this, frankly, more it’s from my time in morning television, on breakfast television, because I always like to start with the sizzle, right? So with an action. So I remember selling a cashmere sweater. It was a cashmere and merino wool blend. And I remember saying to our camera operator, I said, we’ll start on my head and I’m gonna pull out a piece of hair. And so we started literally up.
close, not not so close, but like I pulled and I don’t know if people are watching or listening, but I’m pulling a piece of hair right now if someone’s listening. So I remember starting and I said, let’s start with my hair and then open it up. Right. So I was never too concerned about whether my face appeared on camera. First, there are some people that maybe are a bit more ego driven that they want to make sure that their face is seen. And I was more concerned about the product and what it would take to sell. So I remember pulling this out and I go, do you see this? And I remember holding up the hair to the camera. I said,
Dawn Chubai (13:22.39)
This is a strand of hair. And today’s showstopper is a Kashmir and Merino Will Blend, two of the finest fibers in the world, each a fraction of the width of this one piece of hair. what was, you know, obviously that was meant to educate. It was clearly a hook because it’s like, what the heck is Dawn doing pulling out her hair? Like she got gray hair, what’s happening? But also it was an opportunity to explain how important
important these two fibers were not only that the cashmere is one of the finest fibers in the world but the merino wool as well and because of the blend of the two this now had the feel of 100 % cashmere but not the fussiness and the care meaning you could wash it and so for me that was really key and so I would often start shows like that or I would start playing music first or if I was doing a cooking segment with the paderno pans
I wanted to see the steak go in there first. I don’t care about my face. Let’s put the steak in, let’s hear the sizzle. And I go in. That is the dream sound coming from not a barbecue, not a grill, but from your paderno pan, which you have today on offer at 50 % off. And it was, so, you know, that was my strategy. And a lot of the top posts would have similar mindsets where they had to find what worked for them, but it was always,
intentional and I think more it’s the idea of everything sort of looks spontaneous and really fun and like you’re just sort of winging it but it’s all of that preparation even as simple as what happens in the first one minute that I think about that made me successful.
Moritz Schröder (14:58.87)
Right.
That is so interesting because for anyone who spends any time on social media these days, it’s a lot about hooking people, especially when it comes to short form content. If you’re spending time on TikTok, you can clearly see that the videos that do really well have a hook in the first three seconds. And what you just explained and what you were doing already back in the day, now people are just discovering themselves for social media in 2025. And I want to get into the whole
change of the scene for you and for your clients with social media. But with someone as experienced you on the podcast, I want to linger a little bit more on your actual formal training because nowadays it’s so rare to have people, even people who have been doing live selling for a long time on social media and very successfully who are formally trained like you. So that’s really cool to dig a bit more into.
Obviously with your setup on national television, I imagine the production value was quite high. It was very professionally handled. It was a working environment after all, but can you speak a little bit to how important the seller actually is compared to then the crew and the setup and also the product, obviously, to generate sales? Like how much can be attributed to the skills and also the character of the seller?
Dawn Chubai (16:25.344)
Yeah, I mean, so if I take it to my life in a TV home shopping host mindset, and then I think, of course, it’s important to bring it to sort of the modern day because not everyone has the luxury of like, you know, 10 crew members and bright lights and an audio guy and all that kind of stuff. But I will say that when I in particular, when I had my morning show, because I was very much involved in in the framework of the show, I mean, obviously, the products were chosen and it was a curated bunch of products of what would be on the show.
on the station the entire day, so it was never just one hour of one product. I was often like the menu item of everything to be on the show. And so we would, when I came on, something that had not exist is I insisted on a pre-show meeting. And this was very much typical in morning television where you would have your pre-production meeting. And I’m sure that the crew is probably shaking their head going, oh my gosh, like, on, like lady, we’ve been doing this for years, right? Cause they had been around longer than me.
And I said, no, no, no, it’s important for us to connect because it’s not, although I get to be like the famous one, right? It’s a hundred percent a team effort because if you guys don’t get that close up shot of my hair, if you guys, if my mic is not sounding good or whatever, or if I’m doing a walking shot and the camera isn’t following me, like that affects the viewer experience. And so I said, it’s not just me that’s succeeding in this. We’re all a team in doing this together.
So for me, I would say it was very much a team effort. Obviously, there’s a lot more pressure on the host, 100%, because at the end of the day, and especially nowadays, and I’m not trying to age myself, it’s just the way technology and budgets have happened. A lot of the cameras are robotic now, or they’re stationary, what we call on sticks. So they’re on a tripod. And so a lot of times it’s now the host that has to maybe be a little less fluid and a little less spontaneous because we know we have camera A and camera B.
And camera B is the close up, so we have to be very particular on where we hold our product into camera B for the close up. So it’s probably a little less involved that way. But I would say that the host does have a lot more pressure, obviously, because we have to know the products inside and out. And in a case where you would have a guest host or the expert, right? So the skincare formulator or the fashion expert.
Dawn Chubai (18:46.653)
you would have somebody that you could literally tee up and help them deliver some of those features and benefits while the host would really primarily focus on some of the storytelling, certainly the calls to action, maybe some of that permission to buy, which is something that I really use a lot in my live shopping method. But if you’re on your own, you also have to be just as educated. So my advice for anybody that, obviously maybe they’re getting into home shopping, which would be a very niche group,
or more likely an influencer or an ambassador or a founder who’s going into live stream shopping, you know, to really make sure that you have a great base of product knowledge. as important as that, two more, is the brand knowledge. Because sometimes it’s the brand story that is that point of difference that can drive a sale as much as it is the product. And of course, the likeability of the host. I mean, a host that’s likeable, there are people that are willing to just buy from that host because
They just like that host and they trust that host and that’s great. But where that fails and of course, that’s not always the clearly not the most important thing. You want to put the right product in the hands of the right people. Having that brand story often is a great connector as well, especially when you have a lot of products potentially that fit within a category like skincare where let’s face it, you know, for a lot of people, it’s like whatever they got in their cupboard is fine. So to get them to buy something new, you’ve got to sort of pull out all the stops for sure.
Moritz Schröder (20:10.888)
Ha ha.
Moritz Schröder (20:15.847)
How did you go about studying the products that you were about to sell? Do you get a binder with like the background story and all the features of the products and maybe also brand details or was it all on you to do your research by yourself? How did that look like?
Dawn Chubai (20:31.067)
Little both. So what would happen is if we had a, we would often have a meeting before the launch hour. And it wasn’t every host that was privy to that. It was usually the launch host. And then there would be notes that would follow. So the vendor, so who would be the company or the ambassador, sometimes it’s like the trainer and then you’ve got their ambassador. So not always the front-facing person from the company, from the brand.
would give us bit of product education. And so a lot of that became cumulative unless there was a new product launch. So for instance, if we were selling skincare and the hero products were, you know, serum A, cream A, and I don’t know, toner A, you kind of learn about that once and then you just continue to build on that knowledge. And then it’s less about learning about the product and learning about what will it take to sell that product to the multiple people that are going to watch, knowing that there’s
know, Moritz who maybe has 500 brands of skincare because he just likes buying everything. And then there’s Dawn, who’s been a fan of one particular brand and it’s going to take selling to Dawn a lot more than it will take selling to Moritz who likes to buy everything because he’s got lots of money and he wants to, you know, have every skincare on the market. So I personally would go to those meetings or I would read the recap notes of those meetings because as hosts we were giving that.
And on top of it, you couldn’t just rely on that. So I would also, A, build my own binder of knowledge. So I would also look on the websites. I would read reviews. I would use reviews sometimes as a way to help sell a product. So in my live shopping method, that’s kind of the proof area, right? What kind of proof? Well, it can be awards, right? Is this an allure beauty winner? Is there 5,000 five-star reviews on this? And what are the average people saying about this?
And so I would often use that to help develop my pitch. And the pitch for anybody listening is your sales pitch, right? And a lot of times you can kind of recycle that from show to show to show. So if you’re selling for a particular brand as an ambassador, there’s no reason why you can’t.
Dawn Chubai (22:39.879)
reuse that information. But what’s really, really important for anybody, whether it’s TV home shopping or again, modern day live shopping, is to not be afraid of repetition. So when you build that binder of knowledge, when you build, and now of course people are putting in Google Docs and all of that, but I actually did have a physical binder, you’re going to continue to build on that information. And I will say that the more you do it, like if someone called me today to sell,
Moritz Schröder (22:56.67)
you
Dawn Chubai (23:05.543)
almost any product that I would have sold at the shopping channel, which is now two years ago that I worked last at the shopping channel, although I still work in live shopping, I could probably still go to air and do quite well because of the cumulative knowledge. I might need a little refresher. It wouldn’t take me long though, because just like anything, right? When you learn a language, you build on that language. You start to learn new vocabulary. It’s exactly the same when you talk about sales language, pitch language, and of course, product and brand language, which
all stems from the knowledge that you develop over time.
Moritz Schröder (23:39.997)
Right. And do you or did you back then have certain categories that you were more drawn towards and where it was also known after a while that you’re just the expert in that category, let’s say skincare or anything else really. Did you have a say as well in what you wanted to sell so you can have that personal connection to the product and maybe be even more enthusiastic about it than you maybe otherwise would have been if it’s
I don’t know, a chainsaw that you just don’t care about, or was that completely forced upon you what you have to sell?
Dawn Chubai (24:14.352)
So what happens at least in TV home shopping, and this might be the case for some utility players in live shopping. When I say that, I mean you’re kind of, you can do everything. I was really lucky. I was kind of the utility. I could do anything. And part of that stemmed from the fact that when I, I didn’t come in with a bias, right? I was not formally trained in live shopping. I didn’t go to broadcasting school. So I always went in with quite an open mind. And because of my morning show, which would have
the products of the day, could include chainsaws or snowblowers, right? To squatty potties, to $10,000 diamond tennis bracelets. You know, I kind of had to be good at selling all things. And so I was really lucky because that show was a curated category show, which had a little bit of everything. So I learned to be an expert in anything. And I would say that I was pretty equal, Moritz, on
on my categories, you know, there probably were some that I enjoyed more than others. I did enjoy beauty shows a lot. I really did enjoy jewelry shows a lot, but I also enjoyed fashion, fitness. I mean, yeah, I mean, I just, you know what I loved? I loved connecting products to viewers. I loved interviewing our various guests that we would have, and we would have guests from all around the world, you know, from Germany, and we’d have guests from
You know other areas in Europe and the UK and all sorts of people and areas of expertise So I just I was always a very curious person. I was very competitive So I always I mean everybody wants to be the best right so I would look at the targets and go like how did I fall in? Relative to other people right and so I always wanted to be the best and I always wanted to sell the most but what was great about working in that environment is you had your individual targets and we call those dollars per minute and
So the more you could sell in a minute, it’s all averaged out and then that would determine the success of an event or a show, sometimes a host, right? But yeah, but then you also had the success of what we call the visit and that encompassed everybody that went on to sell that product over the course of the 24 to 48 hours, including everything that just sort of fell into online. So yeah, I mean…
Dawn Chubai (26:37.93)
It’s a hard thing to answer because I was good at selling everything, but it wasn’t that I was naturally good at it. It was something I just, I was just naturally curious and I was naturally passionate and I was a natural entertainer. to me, you know, I kind of had the best of all worlds.
Moritz Schröder (26:54.587)
think that’s good news for anyone who’s interested in live selling that clearly it is a skill and there’s a skill set that can be learned and you’re teaching it. I think that’s way better than hearing like, it’s a God given talent and if you don’t have it, there’s nothing you can do about it. You have to follow the structure.
Dawn Chubai (27:11.142)
Well, to that point, yeah. So I will say though, is that like if we think of four things that you’re gonna want, you’re gonna want like authenticity and relatability. You’re gonna wanna have a level of education product knowledge. And by education, I don’t mean you have to be educated. I mean, you have to educate yourself and you have to be able to relay that information. You wanna have sales skills, wanna have charisma. The longer people watch, the more they like you, the more likely they are to buy, right? Because the average person, even in TV home shopping,
I think we had it figured out the average person might watch 11 minutes. So what are you going to sneak into that 11 minutes? We know that attention span on live shopping and on social media is a lot less. So you have a lot less time to get all of that out. But to your point, you know, you don’t need to be born with all of those four talents. If you’ve got authenticity, authenticity and product knowledge. Well, guess what? You can learn sales, right?
You probably already have natural charisma. Maybe you’re a great salesperson, but you’re not really that camera confident. Well, guess what? You can work on the camera confidence. So to your point, no, you don’t have to be born with all of it, but you should come to the table with some of those elements. And I think in this day and age, especially with influencer marketing and sort of where influencer marketing started,
where it was very much driven personality, very much driven with authenticity, but very little focus on sales. I think now what we’re starting to see in particular with live shopping and possibly also where brands are spending their budgets on influencer marketing, demanding quite a bit more than, hey, I want that mug that Dawn’s holding, like not good enough. I want to know what’s good about that mug.
Just because I like Dawn doesn’t mean I’m parting with a dollar or $2 or $10 or $10,000.
Moritz Schröder (29:01.059)
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I think it’s a very interesting development because five to 10 years ago, was a very good business for people who looked good on Instagram to be an influencer and get money that way.
To me who never was an influencer, it seemed like pretty easy money because you didn’t actually have to convert, right? You didn’t have to make the sales in the end. You just assumed that the sales would follow, but oftentimes they didn’t. And nowadays it’s much more attribution based and you have to actually show that you can convert. So to your point, I think being able to have…
certain skills around sales and also being able to develop those further is actually good news for anyone who wants to go into that line of business.
Dawn Chubai (29:47.722)
Yeah, and I would say coming to the table with a bit of a framework. And so what I love about the current state of, I’m going to say creator commerce. So I know that there’s influencers and then there’s I remember going to a digital conference and, you know, someone used the term influencer, it wasn’t me. But someone had said it and they and the people were very offended because they’re like, no, we’re creators. And I do want you know, there is very much a difference. And maybe in the past, there wasn’t that segmentation. But now there very much is.
But I always like to remind people too that, you know, likes don’t equal sales. And I can recall a time where even when I was at the shopping channel, they were starting to approach the subject of live shopping outside of, you know, the linear TV broadcast. So they were looking at, you know, how else can they leverage the proven frameworks of what they’ve been doing for, you know, 50 years in that space and leverage modern day technology and possibly
you know, access some of the influence that was out there. And so I remember they went and found an influencer who had, I can’t remember, I think it was something like a hundred thousand followers. And I think that they automatically just assumed that because that person was going to be appearing with one of our shopping channel hosts, I think they, and it was going to be on social media. So this was not broadcasting on, the website. was again, leveraging the social media side of things. And I think there was this like,
assumption that you know for 100,000 followers that they would convert whatever they were going to come they probably thought 100,000 they probably thought 100 % conversion but of course even if they they would have been happy if they got 1 % conversion 10 2 % right like most Shopify stores typically see 1 to 3 % conversion and I remember the extreme disappointment that they had when a there wasn’t that conversion and any conversion that was there they discovered it was because of the professional host was there and because
twofold, in that strategy, there was not really thinking about the complete pathway of what would be required for someone to AC that video and that live shopping event, but also to convert. So they neglected to negotiate with this influencer, promote the event. So that’s a problem, right? Because like, what good is that? And then the second fold is that, what value did that influencer bring?
Moritz Schröder (32:05.93)
Right.
Dawn Chubai (32:14.077)
Well, that influencer really brought very little value. They brought a name, right, and a likeability for sure, but wasn’t promoted on their channel. So you’re not getting new viewers, which is a problem. And then on top of it, that person didn’t know how to sell. So they kind of did what I hate to say is like back in the old days when you sort of really did nothing to contribute, it was kind of like you did the smiling and looking pretty. And of course, I don’t mean that in a derogatory matter. I just mean that there was not that mindset of
Oh, I’m selling something and I need to participate in the sales part of it. So it was unfortunate, and it was a hard lesson to learn, but it’s an important lesson for people that are listening and watching right now as they look to leverage the influence of an influencer or a creator or a celebrity to understand how is that person going to make it better than a person who is comfortable on camera that can sell and that knows your product.
How is that going to be better than that person doing it alone? Because in my experience, and with what I witnessed, it would have been far more valuable to just leverage the professional salesperson who was good on camera and had relatability than to assume that somebody with followers was going to make any lick of difference, and especially for the money that was being paid.
Moritz Schröder (33:36.258)
So if we look at that example and you want to coach that influencer to at least be able to contribute a little bit, obviously it takes more than just a crash course in sales to be able to do this consistently and at the high level that you were doing it for years. But if you wanted to just brief them before they go into the live shopping session, how do you convert viewers into customers?
Dawn Chubai (34:04.068)
Yeah, so I mean the first thing and again a lot of you know when I when I teach and coach on my live shopping method it’s very much based on what I did so I mean we’re not reinventing the wheel here and even when I talk about certain sales terminology it’s not like I invented sales sales been sales been around since the beginning of time but we’re really fine tuning it into a technology and a way of communicating frankly through a screen that is not completely unlike selling in person but as we start to see more
D to C, more direct to consumer, obviously less brick and mortar. It’s important to understand how can we connect to people through the screen in a way that feels like they’re gonna be there in person. So when I would coach and when I do coach influencers and brand ambassadors and creators and anybody that’s gonna be on the camera, I always say, first of all, you wanna talk to the people like it’s your best friend, like it’s someone you really care about because you should. You should care about putting the right product in the right hands.
And the sales mindset, so if you’re in a co-host situation, it’s a lot easier because you can be the expert and you don’t have to know as much about sales, but you certainly have to be very well versed on product knowledge and in particular, what might motivate someone to buy that product. So typically when we look at sales, is it a need or a want? And let’s be honest, as much as I’d like to say, you really need this mug, odds are you probably have 500 mugs.
I don’t know what it is about 500 for you Moritz, it’s 500 brands of skincare or 500 mugs, but you’re the 500 guy. But the reality is you probably don’t need this mug and you probably don’t need this skincare because you probably have what you need and if you had no money, you wouldn’t need anything but food and clothing and probably minimal clothing and shelter. And that’s really all our major needs are. So I would say that for an influencer that I would be training is to help people understand how do we change or at least…
Moritz Schröder (35:35.477)
you
Dawn Chubai (35:59.177)
put an idea out there that this want is kind of a need. And often we need to sort of think of more of the emotional sides of things, right? So that red lipstick, does anybody need red lipstick? Absolutely not, right? Absolutely not. But what do we need? Well, as humans, we need to feel good about ourselves, right? That’s how we perform better. We are more likable.
all of that when we feel good about ourselves. So if I were teaching an influencer to sell lipstick, yes, of course, the color, the packaging, all that’s very important, but what are we selling? Okay, remember, we’re not just selling the features, we’re selling the benefits, we’re selling the outcome. So a lot of this cannot be found on a product page. If I go to amazon.com and I look up a red lipstick, it’s gonna tell me the gram weight, it’s gonna tell me the color.
going to tell me maybe some of the ingredients, but we can’t just do that when we’re doing live selling. We have to sell an outcome. So what are we selling? We’re selling confidence. We’re selling, you know, a very affordable way, frankly, to change up a look far less expensive than an entire wardrobe and something that’s you know, a luxury that most people can afford. Maybe not every brand, right? But most of us can afford that. And so when I work with, when I work with
influencers and ambassadors, I always try to get them into the mindset of going beyond what they see on a product page and to put themselves in the position of the person they are presenting to. Does that make sense?
Moritz Schröder (37:35.174)
Yeah, totally, totally. get that. Just observing you and how you can pull real life examples like that out of thin air. Do you go through life and you just see products and you’re like, that would be my hook probably with it. And that’s how I would reframe it to be a need rather than a want. Is that a blessing and a curse in your profession or can you turn it off when the camera is turned off?
Dawn Chubai (38:02.629)
I mean, it’s all a blessing. There’s no curse in this. mean, I am very fortunate that, you know, and I was not born with like this really outward confident personality. I mean, in high school, I was not unpopular, but I wasn’t popular. I sort of just blended. And I know that, you know, for me now, I think like, my gosh, like, I can’t imagine to me, I would never want to blend, but I blended, which was fine because again, everybody liked me, but I wasn’t really noticed. And so,
Moritz Schröder (38:05.152)
Ha ha ha.
Dawn Chubai (38:31.994)
Yeah, I would say that everything that I have and the way I’ve developed both personally and professionally is all a blessing. I don’t feel like every time I see a product, I’m constantly finding the hook for it. I’m pretty intentional. If I were selling something, that’s when I sort of turn on that part of it or if I’m coaching somebody. Even though I know what that hook might be, I do try to get people to think through the process themselves. And that’s what I do with my
with my course that I offer and with my one-on-one sessions is I help, I try to help people develop that skill set and that muscle memory. And then of course, I’m always able to offer great suggestions. One of the things I personally love working through are themes. So, and this was always the case on Good Morning TSC as well, although the products would have been chosen for me, often I would try to see if there was a central theme.
that we could tie around it. And of course we know that there are holidays that are easy, right? Black Friday, Cyber Monday, Mother’s Day, Thanksgiving. It’s Canadian Thanksgiving weekend here where I am. So we would often think of themes that way, but I like to always challenge people that I work with to center their shows around a theme. And for anyone that’s a content creator, it’s not that much of a stretch because it’s often content that they’re creating anyway, but making it shoppable. And so that…
I do constantly keep that tap flowing, if that makes sense, is the idea of the creative concepts. And then the rest is just, you listen, you got it, you’re going to make a recipe, right? It’s got salt, sugar, butter, flour, all this other stuff. You’re going to do it once and then you’re going to see, did it taste good? Right? So think of this as a live show. Did it perform well? Did it feel good? Did you get good reactions? Did you get people showing up? Okay, well, I’m going to taste that pie again. And then I’m going to go, oh, next time I’m going to add a little more salt.
or next time I’m gonna have a glass of wine with it. And so I like to approach content like that is that it constantly evolves. You can have a recipe as a base, right? And you should, and sometimes that means watching somebody else do it, just like I did when I first started. I started with someone else’s recipe and then I would add my own flavor to it until at some point that recipe is no longer theirs, it’s now mine. And that’s what I work with other people to do.
Moritz Schröder (40:51.637)
I think it’s also a fantastic time for all of us to work in this field because of social media and you can go really niche and you can build your own niche audience. You don’t have to be liked by millions. It’s enough if a thousand people follow you and really enjoy your content. And it’s really cool that nowadays it’s possible to then go really deep on that.
Dawn Chubai (41:15.944)
Well, let me tell you, so, and this is a great point of that. I mean, I have a decent amount of followers. I’ve got, I don’t know, 17 and a half thousand on Instagram and I don’t know about the same on Facebook. And so in total I have about 60,000 followers, which is, know, what am I? I guess I’d be like a micro influencer if I was going to call myself an influencer, but I’m less concerned about the followers because if you can’t convert any of those, that means absolutely nothing. And in my experience, it’s very easy to get in
know, engagement for the person who’s doing the influencing, but very rarely does that translate into a benefit for the brand who is often paying the influencer. So I sell, I do regular live streams for a brand and it’s a female wellness brand, particularly for women in menopause and perimenopause. And one would assume like with all of my followers, like, gosh, why wouldn’t I have like 10,000 people watching? No.
During the live, I think on my first live, I had seven people watching during the live and then the replay, you we had several hundred watch, but even in the seven that watched, seven people converted and my sales were in the thousands because of the price point of these products. And then of course, over the replay, people kept buying on that. And so that also worked with my conversion rate. So I always bring this up because
I like to remind people that it’s, yes, of course it’s nice to have lots of people watching. means you’ve got lots of people engaging. The brand does not care how many people are watching at all. The brand I work with and I was like, oh darn, oh my gosh, there’s only like seven people that watch. And they’re like, yeah, but you sold $5,000 worth of product. And I’m like, okay, that’s all they cared about. And so I always tell that story because I don’t want people to feel discouraged if they don’t have a lot of people watching. What I will say,
is it’s very, very important to leverage your replays. It’s very, very important, of course, to promote and to continue to drive sales to that product and that brand that you are working with. But don’t get too discouraged if you don’t have a lot of people. Your conversion rate is what’s the most important. That’s where the ROI is determined, not the fact that on the reel that I did on social media to promote the event had 20,000 views and likes and all this other stuff.
Dawn Chubai (43:39.43)
Brand doesn’t care about that. I care about that. That helps my algorithm. But the brand does not care about that. So don’t get discouraged if you see less people on the live. Act as though you’re selling to one and a million at the same time. That’s the success that you have. And over time, you will continue to drive revenue and you’ll continue to drive awareness. And ultimately that’s where the value to you or to the brand in you is.
Moritz Schröder (44:05.629)
think that’s important for people to hear. Nowadays, we’re so focused on the likes and the views and the followers. we, especially when it comes to selling online and selling through live shopping events, we kind of forget that it’s actually about how much did you sell and how well did you convert.
So with your background and you as a professional life-selling coach, what can you tell people what they should maybe use in terms of phrases to make sure that more people get converted into buyers?
Dawn Chubai (44:38.335)
Yeah, so I would say that one thing and honestly, I even have clients right now that I have to constantly remind how important a call to action is. And in my experience, there are a lot of brands and you may have brands that are watching and they plan to represent themselves. And that’s great. Like if you as the formulator or the designer are comfortable on camera, trust me when I say people want to hear from you. They love hearing from you, even if you aren’t quite as comfortable.
as Dawn or whatever, leverage your own skill set and the fact that not a lot of people have access to you. So I think that’s really important. But I constantly have to remind people to do the call to action. So a call to action, a lot of times, and we call it CTA. So for anyone that’s listening and is kind of new in this space, we call it like a CTA. And I think that there’s a lot of hesitancy with a lot of brands and influencers who don’t want to do the hard sell.
Right? The, but wait, there’s more. You know, everyone always sort of thought of this as being like, I hate selling or it feels slimy to sell. Listen, you put a product to market. How else do you think you’re going to sell it if you don’t tell people how to buy it? So it’s very important to do a call to action. So I, you know, I always challenge people to think of a few different ways to not only drive to the, you know, how you’re going to buy. So is it press this button or head here? But to also
create some urgency to it. a lot of times some of the constant phrases you’ll hear me doing is like, listen, if you’re like me and you’ve experienced hot flashes, then I highly recommend these bra inserts, which by the way, don’t require refrigeration and you just stick them in your bra and they will actually help cool you down from your décolleté up. And if you hate feeling like X, then you’re going to want to get this. And what I’d love for you to do right now is press this button.
Or if you have questions, let me know because I want to help you make the right purchase. So it’s just always really just making sure people know what’s in it for them. So again, selling the outcome, right? I don’t want to feel sweaty. I don’t want to feel this. I don’t want dry hair. I don’t want whatever. I want to see better. I want to feel better. All this other stuff. And then making sure they know how to buy. I had a brand that did fashion not too long ago.
Dawn Chubai (47:00.389)
and they had a great show, like it was so entertaining and people watched and they engaged and they loved it. And they didn’t see a lot of sales. And I remember looking back at the playback and I’m like, well, you had a great show. It was very entertaining. There was lots of camaraderie. You gave great tips, but you didn’t tell people actually how to buy. And you also have to give people permission to buy.
Moritz Schröder (47:22.897)
you
Dawn Chubai (47:27.687)
So a lot of times more it’s what I say as well is that especially when it falls into that want versus need, let’s use a KitchenAid mixer, stand mixer for some, you for example, we would sell this artisan mixer that would be, I think it was $400 Canadian. So a little bit less than the states, obviously, just with the conversion rates. And, you know, one of the ways that I would sell this considered purchase, which is, you know, means it’s a little bit more expensive. It’s something you have to really think about. You’re not just going, oh, here I got a dollar in my pocket.
And I would often say, listen, it’s not my job to spend your money for you, right? I don’t know what your budget is. not, I definitely don’t want to press you, but I, what I will say, you know, if you’re like my friend, Kathy, who makes pies five days a week, because she also sells them at the farmer’s market and she likes to make sure the neighbors have it, you know, doesn’t it just make sense for her to have something like a KitchenAid, which A is going to save her time, but ultimately money as well, right? Because now she’s got
you know, or saves her wrists because she, you know, as you age, it’s harder to knead the dough and all this other stuff. And so, you know, I would encourage people to remember, A, you’re not spending other people’s money, but you have to make them understand why this is for them and why they need it now. And to incorporate some of that in there and then ultimately close with how can they get this home? What are the options for them? Press this button, go to this website, ask me a question so I can make the, help you make the decision.
Moritz Schröder (48:52.994)
It’s so interesting with sales that it’s so much psychology involved and there’s clearly a system that you can follow that helps you do better. You actually mentioned the very famous catchphrase from Rompopiel, but wait, there’s more. Do you have other catchphrases that you really love and enjoy using or maybe that you’ve seen other people on social media use that does really well for them?
Dawn Chubai (49:20.263)
Yeah, mean, what I would say is that, mean, but wait this more, I’ll usually throw that out there just because it is kind of funny, but there’ll be a whole generation more. It’s like, the next generation is not gonna know what that even, it’s like if I say, let’s review tape, people are like, what are you talking about? And what I mean is the recording of, but even now if I watch on digital, I say, Honestly, don’t underestimate the value of saying, so why does this matter?
Moritz Schröder (49:32.144)
Probably not.
Dawn Chubai (49:51.321)
Right? So if we think of what it takes to tap into that psychology and getting that commitment phrase that yes, this is for me, the person who’s on the other side of the screen, I always like to say, don’t forget that the person at home is likely starting with a no. And so when I say, you know, first of all, I hate when people just say, you need this mug. I love this. I need this.
always counter with a why. I love this and here’s why because this mug that I’m holding, it fits my whole hand in here. I hate those dinky little teacups because I need to hold that mug and feel something sturdy. And so if you’re like me, then you’re going to want this mug because look at how your hand slides both ways into it. If you like holding your mug like this, it works. If you like holding your mug like this, it works.
So you can see I’ve addressed not only the why I love it and why you might like it, but why do you need it now? Will you need this mug now? Why? Right? Why? You need it now because today it’s 50 % off and tomorrow it’s not. So if you want to pay twice as much tomorrow, then good for you. You got more money than me, but I’d be buying it like this. One of the catch phrases I use too. So that’s kind of like an external sales technique. And I say, don’t underestimate something simple as understanding the why and even saying,
Here’s why that matters. Here’s why I said that. Here’s why you need this, right? Why, why, why, why, why? But I have a signature phrase that I use in particular with live shopping and I call it seeing the feel. So what I mean by that is understanding when someone can’t touch, taste or try on a product for themselves, you have to be that advocate for them. And this is very important for anyone presenting to understand that you are literally that conduit from the physical product.
to the product that someone is trusting in, in how you describe it and how you demonstrate it so that they can have a very clear understanding of the product they’re getting. So when I say see the feel, okay, so imagine through the screen, I’m gonna tell you this sweater is soft. Well, Moritz’s version of soft might be a burlap sack. If I get that home and I feel a burlap sack or sandpaper, I’m…
Dawn Chubai (52:13.159)
very happy with Moritz and then I’m going to think Moritz didn’t tell me the truth and didn’t… Well, no, you might very well think that soft, but soft is such a subjective term. So we want to use very good descriptions that help people see the feel. So how soft is it? Is it soft like a kitten underbelly? Is it soft like the inner ear of a Labrador Retriever? Is it silky or velvety like a rose petal? Now we’re getting common…
language and yeah some of it still might feel a bit subjective but literally if someone has a rose in their home they can go what does that feel like now i wonder what rose petal oh now i know so now every time someone says this is rose petal soft this is what it makes my skin feel rose petal soft or a push-up bra for your face right giving you the lift like a push-up bra now we have common things and it’s not so subjective so live selling language seeing the feel is what i like to say and so yeah i mean it’s less about
a signature phrase, and for me it’s more of concepts that help convert through the screen.
Moritz Schröder (53:14.158)
Who do you see out there doing live social shopping to potentially a large audience that has really nailed this? Because honestly to me, when I hear you speak, I can see a very distinct difference to people who just casually do it on TikTok versus someone like you who has been professionally trained and been doing this for years. Do you see people who are really nailing this as an art form almost, or do you feel like anyone out there?
can’t really hold up to what used to be on television.
Dawn Chubai (53:46.916)
Well, I would never I would never be that arrogant to say that no one’s measuring up to me because listen, I mean, there there will be an entire demographic maybe that’s listening to your podcast or watching that is going to think, what Dawn’s doing is so old fashioned because TV home shopping is old fashioned. But we’re really ultimately talking about communicating through a camera in a way that makes a customer trust, makes them feel like they have a clear understanding of the product you’re selling and what they’re going to get home.
Moritz Schröder (53:49.39)
Hahaha
Dawn Chubai (54:16.815)
is exactly what’s being represented on the screen. So if we kind of take that, that that’s what I think I bring to the table and what those that learn my live shopping method are able to bring to the table and what is exactly out there, it’s very hard for me to say who’s doing it really right, because I think there are a lot of people that are doing it right. There’s a lot happening on TikTok, which is a completely different medium. It’s a lot more frantic. It’s a lot more impulse-based.
It’s also why you see a lot of returns and a lot of lack of trust in what people are getting, but they’re really, they’re tapping into that impulse purchase, which yes, there is value in having people act quickly even in TV home shopping, but I was always very concerned that someone would be getting something home and thinking that if I only focused on the quick sale, am I gonna lose trust?
right? If they get at home and all I worried about was selling because I had to hit a target. Like for me, it was more important for me to say this might not be right for those of you that don’t like this. And guess what? We have lots of products for you, but maybe this one’s not the right one for you. If your budget is a concern, I have a different product for you. And I’m not sure a lot of that is happening on TikTok shop.
I would say as far as brands that are doing a really good job with it, there’s a brand that I used to work with at the shopping channel called SKINN and they are just killing it on TikTok shop. I guess to your point, more it’s like these are again are brands that also have experience working in TV home shopping. And are there ambassadors, TV home shopping hosts? No, their ambassadors are young ambassadors, people that probably never watched TV home shopping in their life.
And they’re doing a great job, but I suspect it’s also because they are learning some of the basics from the TV home shopping. So I would say from a conversion standpoint, brands that are looking to step into this space.
Dawn Chubai (56:19.364)
Yeah, I mean, I don’t know that there’s anybody doing just a killer job on it. We hear of lot of celebrities doing a really great job. I’m not sure how much of that is sales expertise or how much of it is just leveraging popularity and hoping for a quick sale. So yeah, it’s not a very good way to answer your question. And it’s certainly not meant to degrade or throw shade on anybody because there are a lot of people selling a lot of product. I’m just not 100 % sure how much advocacy there is and how much salesmanship.
if that makes sense.
Moritz Schröder (56:51.454)
It does, it does. And I’m very much aware of the issue specifically with TikTok shop where you do have a lot of returns. It’s interesting that you attribute that to a lack of trust. And I totally see that makes sense. Do you have any tips on how you can increase trust with your audience to prevent people returning everything after they get the sale delivered?
Dawn Chubai (57:15.575)
Yeah, I mean, when done right, you should see upwards of 40 % less sales than a traditional e-commerce store. And it’s because you have that personal advocacy. And when I say that, I mean, as opposed to going to the dot com and Dawn presenting as an example, driving to the dot com, right? Because if you think of your host as an on-camera salesperson, as though they were in store is a really good mindset, right? So if you had someone physically in there and they tried on a pair of jeans that were too tight, I would hope
that that salesperson would say, you know what, let me grab you a different size. Like that’s the advocacy that you would get and hope for in store, right? Not that it’s the last pair we have and you better get these ones because it’s the last pair I have. I don’t care that they’re 12 sizes too small, right? Now, how do you do that through the screen? Once again, how I would do that is I would say, okay, I’m selling these jeans or this shirt, for instance. And you can see it’s got lots of stretch, lots of stretch. Now,
If you are, maybe you’ve got a bigger bust like me or maybe a larger frame or athletic calves, right? So if you’re selling leggings or boots, you’ve got athletic calves, meaning you’re bit of a wider leg. That would be how we would say that so that people didn’t feel insecure or self-conscious about themselves, which is always the right thing. And the kindest thing is to just be mindful of people’s feelings and all of that. I would say if you need something with more stretch, this top might not be for you.
Now, I do have a different top that is right for you, but I would not want you to get something home that didn’t fit right. That doesn’t serve any of us well. So if you are looking for this top, given that it has less stress, stretch, would recommend sizing up. So if I’m a large, you’re going to go with an extra large. Or look how much stretch this is. you’re expecting? Dawn’t worry, this dress actually will grow with you. So it means you’re going to save money because you now don’t have to buy a
in pregnancy dress, you can actually wear this even once you’re, you know, had your child and long after that. So what a great investment. Or look at this top is reversible, right? So if you’re somebody that loves bright colors, this is going to be great for you. Now, listen, if you’re somebody that wears black all the time, not to worry, the reverse side is black. So this is for you too. So yeah, I would use phrases like, you know, if you are the person that loves this, this is for you. And that, and also again, being very transparent about
Moritz Schröder (59:23.019)
you
Dawn Chubai (59:34.009)
the features of the product and how it might impact the decision that someone is going to make, you know, with respect to how it’s going to fit into their life. And I think the one of the biggest things that that cultivates trust, reading things like testimonials, sharing your personal experience. So, you know, did I use every product or like every product that I sold on the shopping channel? No way. I sold thousands of products. Some of them I didn’t and I didn’t. They weren’t my favorite.
But I also was very respectful understanding that just because Dawn doesn’t like something doesn’t mean it’s not for someone out there. So I would use if you are the person that loves smelly feet, then these runners are going to be great because they are made out of synthetic material and your feet can’t breathe. I mean, I’m being joking, but you know I’m saying? Like I can sell anything that way. And I didn’t sacrifice my credibility by saying I love these or these won’t make your feet sweat. No, they’re going to make your feet sweat.
This isn’t as breathable. So what you might want to do is you might want to make sure that you pick up this deodorant. So I would always find a way to make sure that I was being very truthful and authentic and understanding that what’s right for me isn’t always right for others. And what’s not right for me might be perfect for that person out there.
Moritz Schröder (01:00:54.408)
Wow. mean, that’s, it’s such a reframe of how you think about selling. And I think it’s such a powerful tool if you use it the right way. And also of course, if you are using it responsibly, because I think if you’re very good with this, you can really make people buy almost anything because you can reframe things so easily.
Do you personally take advantage of the boom of TikTok shop? Are you an affiliate creator? Do you do live streams? Because I would imagine that you would do really well with it. Also given that so many other people just, you know, start in their early twenties doing this maybe and they just naturally didn’t have the time to build the experience that you have.
Dawn Chubai (01:01:38.883)
Well, one thing about us here in Canada is we have TikTok and we can watch TikTok shop, but we cannot buy from it and we we can’t sell on TikTok shop. We can live stream. So that’s an unfortunate thing because I do think I would enjoy TikTok shop because I think it’s a totally, it’s a different platform and I would have loved to experience what that’s like. So that part’s unfortunate. I would say that, you know,
Moritz Schröder (01:01:46.078)
Right.
Dawn Chubai (01:02:03.627)
For a lot of people, you mentioned like there’s a lot of younger people and there are, but what I’m really excited about is QVC in the States actually does TikTok Shop and they’re doing a great job with it and they’re leveraging their hosts, some of which are around my age or even older, right? And bringing their own flavor and bringing their audiences there, which is a goal and also attracting audiences. So even though we have a lot of young presenters that present on TikTok Shop,
People of all ages watch TikTok and that is of course underpriced attention where you’ve got people doom scrolling at night, right? And just primed to buy waiting to see those great products. And so I, you know, that’s for me is very encouraging that if I were given the opportunity to sell on TikTok shop, if one day we are allowed to do that in Canada, yeah, I think there would be a great space for me. And I highly encourage, you know, anybody regardless of their interests in different categories or their age.
to not fear trying these platforms out if they have a product to sell or if they represent a product, maybe they’re an affiliate marketer. It’s a really, really great way to not only make some extra money. And so I personally work off of a set fee. So I train people, but I also still am a host. And I do work with some brands, but my goal is to empower other people. So I’m not selling myself as a host here, but when I talk to people,
I always say, you know, there’s a few different ways you can monetize this. So you can charge a host fee. You could do just commission or you could do a combination of the two. And I’m working with a platform right now called Approved to Shop, which is just launching. I’ve got a partner in this as well. And so we’re leveraging a platform called eStreamly, which allows us to not have to integrate with e-commerce and allows us to have URLs so we can actually sell from multiple brands without having direct integration.
And so what I love about that is that, you you can have many options for hosts to choose from and you could have many different demographics to sell to based on perhaps who that on-air representative is. So yeah, I just encourage anybody that is whether they’re selling on Amazon live or TikTok shop or leveraging their own IP, like their website or getting hired maybe.
Dawn Chubai (01:04:22.799)
from a brand to really think about not only what they bring to the table, but what the value of that might be. And in the beginning, it might mean you’re working a bit for commission and on a low rate, but over time as you start to show your return on the investment that the brand is making on you or in you, then you should be able to negotiate things like a host fee, which to me is far more enticing than just a straight ahead affiliate marketing scheme. But that’s my opinion.
Moritz Schröder (01:04:50.274)
Right. Well, I hope that TikTok Shop keeps expanding. Me for one, I would also love to get on it. And here in Scandinavia, we also don’t yet have access to TikTok Shop. I hope that’s gonna change. And I hope for you that it’s gonna come to Canada.
If we look a little bit into the boom of live shopping and also social commerce as a whole, I mean, it’s been a tidal wave forming in the last couple of years. Also Asia and specifically China of course was the front runner there. Where do you see this going? What is your prediction for the next five years? Are you as bullish on live shopping as people like Gary Vee for example are, or do you think it’s not going to be quite as big as what we see in China right now?
Dawn Chubai (01:05:35.812)
Well, I think it’s pretty hard to ever think that we’re going to be like China, you know, from the from the numbers standpoint, you know, what 600 billion? No, but we’re already in that trajectory of hitting that 68 billion, according to CoreSight, you know, in the US, Canada, we don’t really measure Canada. So we all kind of just when I when I talk to brands, I always just kind of say the 68 billion in in the US. But Gary Vee is talking about 80 billion, you know, now. And of course,
To be fair, he’s part owner in what not. So he’s very interested in obviously promoting live shopping, but he’s been talking about live shopping since what 2008, 2009, talking about the idea of video commerce, commerce on camera, all of that. So, you know, it’s happening, there is no question. And I personally have seen an uptick in my business, my live selling school. So not only with the course that I sell, but also I do work still one-on-one with brands.
on helping them get started with their live shopping journey at rate to the point of actually if they need me appearing on camera with them and then doing a postmortem and a next steps and helping them navigate the different technologies that might be out there with the different platforms. So, you know, are we going to be like China? Yeah, I just don’t think we will. We’re just not we don’t even have the population to support that. I also think China in the way that they do live shopping again is a bit more frantic, is a little bit more. It’s a little bit more like the TikTok shop style where it’s like I see it, I buy it. The person holds it up.
We’ve all seen that famous assembly line holding up out of the box, right? Yeah, none of that will fly in North America. It just won’t. I would say in the US, people tend to buy more on the fly. In Canada, is a lot more, the consumer likes to do a lot more research, which is why I think live shopping, once it does hit its peak here and really start to steam train through,
Moritz Schröder (01:07:02.471)
shit.
Dawn Chubai (01:07:24.46)
It will be because of that advocacy and education that a live shopping host will provide to them that will make it successful. But I will say since Gary Vaynerchuk has started really amping up his talk about live shopping, in particular in the last year, I’ve seen a tremendous uptick in my business and in the content that I create educating people about live shopping. yeah, I mean, without question, that train is going. And I always say to people, listen, you don’t have to get on the train right now. Like the train is going to go.
and there’ll be another one that passes and that’s okay. But if you don’t get on this train, you’re not gonna end up at the destination faster than anybody. So if you are just starting to educate yourself about live shopping, maybe you’re listening to this podcast or watching this podcast or listening to Gary Vee, and you’re one of those early adopters, you sort of have that newspaper that you’re looking at today.
that’s gonna be published tomorrow. You’re gonna get there faster. You already know this proof of concept is already there, but we’re still fine tuning it. And you get to be a part of that growth and you get to be a part of that driving, but it’s happening. So get on the train now or get on it later. Just where do you wanna fit into that journey for your industry? Do you wanna be last? Do you wanna be first? Do you wanna be in the middle? That train’s going. When are you hopping on?
Moritz Schröder (01:08:43.288)
And you are fantastically positioned to basically be the train conductor and lead people into the right direction. Dawn, it’s been such pleasure talking to you because I’ve been…
very interested in live shopping for quite some time now. And I’ve been talking to people in the industry, but no one quite like you who is actively out there coaching people. And to me, what it did was taking that black box that live shopping can be a little bit where you have a huge audience and then you’re able to convert that into revenue and sales. But so far, nobody really has taught me what happens in between. You have done that excellently today.
Where can people find you? How do you want people to reach out to you if they’re interested in learning more about life selling?
Dawn Chubai (01:09:30.07)
It’s very easy. You go to livesellingschool.com and from there I have lots of free guides. I offer brainstorming sessions. If you’re a brand who really wants to get started, download the guides first and then if it’s still interesting to you, some time with me so we can chat about how this might fit in with your business. And one just last, and follow me on social media at Dawn Chube. I’m very easy to find, livesellingschool.com and at Dawn Chube. But you know, as we kind of wrap,
I want to also just remind people that when we think of live shopping to remember it’s not just a revenue generator, it’s a complete marketing and sales strategy. So I always like to say it’s a marketing channel with sales attached. And so just to be mindful, this is not a one and done. All of this content that you create live can be repurposed to really maximize and leverage the halo effect it brings.
And that one live stream can generate, you know, 50 pieces of content and end up on your product pages and shoppable videos. And so there’s so much more to it than just what happens during that live. And so to think of it as a longer play strategy as opposed to just, I went live and where what now? No, this has to be part of your whole ecosystem for your for your business. So, yeah, thank you so much, Mark. It was just absolute pleasure talking with you. And thank you. Thank you so much for for caring to chat with me.
Moritz Schröder (01:10:53.007)
Thank you so much for coming on. was a true pleasure to be talking with you today. Thanks.
Dawn Chubai (01:10:59.246)
Thank you.