Guest Bio:
Sebastian Nelson is the co-founder and CEO of Cruva. Before founding Cruva, he was selling products on Amazon and stumbled onto TikTok Shop and social commerce by accident.
Summary:
In this conversation, Sebastian Nelson discusses the rebranding of his company from UpTK to Cruva, emphasizing the vision of becoming the AI operating system for social commerce. He explores the rise of social commerce, particularly through TikTok Shop, and the challenges of navigating a fragmented market as more platforms enter the space. Sebastian shares insights on building a tech solution for affiliate marketing, the importance of personal relationships in retaining affiliates, and how Cruva positions itself against competitors. He also highlights the future of live shopping and the evolving landscape of affiliate marketing, stressing the need for more affiliates and the shift away from traditional influencer models.
Takeaways:
- The rebranding from UpTK to Cruva reflects a vision for broader social commerce.
- Social commerce is expected to expand beyond TikTok Shop as more platforms enter the market.
- Fragmentation in social commerce presents both challenges and opportunities for brands.
- Cruva aims to be a comprehensive solution for managing affiliate marketing.
- Building personal relationships with affiliates is crucial for long-term success.
- The shift to TikTok Shop has opened new avenues for brands to reach consumers.
- Live shopping is a growing trend that brands need to embrace.
- Cruva differentiates itself through reliability and customer support.
- The affiliate marketing landscape is evolving, with a need for more content-first affiliates.
- The future of affiliate marketing may involve more retainers for successful creators.
Full Transcript:
Moritz Schröder (00:01.53)
So Sebastian, you have founded and currently are running a business called Cruva which I think for most people still probably is known as UpTik which was the name until very recently. I think around a month ago you made a name change. What was the reason behind that?
Sebastian Nelson (00:12.195)
Yes.
Sebastian Nelson (00:20.182)
Yeah. So, I mean, the reason was, you know, looking ahead to the future, the vision of the company is to be the AI operating system for social commerce. And social commerce is not just going to be TikTok in the future. So having Tick in the name just kind of tied us to TikTok and just looking ahead, we want it to be, you know, something that could be bigger than that.
And so that was really like the driving force. And we figured, hey, let’s make the name change. You know, while we’re still young, it’s only, you we’ve only been in business for a year and a half. And, you know, we’ll only get bigger from here. And so if we, we bite the bullet now, you know, we’ll be thankful in a couple of years.
Moritz Schröder (00:59.257)
Yeah, makes sense. Even though it’s always hard to do that kind of rebranding when people have gotten to know your brand, even though it’s only been one and a half years. Certainly better now than later in the future, but I’m sure there was a little bit of work to be done to educate consumers existing and future. Did you do some publicity around it or how did you go about that?
Sebastian Nelson (01:22.958)
Yeah, we got, you know, we had some articles written, you know, we did a lot of marketing around it, but we still had, you know, people who people had thought I’d sold the company. They were like, oh, you sold already. I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, we just rebranded it. Don’t worry. Don’t wait. Still the same team. You know, it’s it’s yeah, it was there. Definitely some funny interactions.
Moritz Schröder (01:35.928)
You
Moritz Schröder (01:42.776)
You weren’t like, I wish I had already exited and scaled it to that level. Nice, but do you already see signs for other platforms to enter the race with TikTok Shop or is that more that you’re just setting yourself up for a success in the future?
Sebastian Nelson (01:45.868)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly.
Sebastian Nelson (02:02.944)
Yeah, I mean, I think there’s absolutely going to be more platforms. YouTube shopping has already come out with the infrastructure. you know, it’s not as built out as TikTok shop is. It’s not closed loop like TikTok shop is, which is kind of what makes TikTok shop so powerful. But Meta is also developing. So like there’s it’s going to be everywhere, right? It’s going to be everywhere. You know, we see things like what not what not is it going to integrate with with Shopify? I’m sure. And you’ll be able to sell products through there. So all of these platforms are
They have to, right? They just absolutely have to. And so it’s going to be exciting to see and we feel like we’re really well positioned to kind of be at the forefront.
Moritz Schröder (02:43.254)
And how far into the future do you think that still is that the really large players like Meta and YouTube mainly will enter that race? Because I mean, Meta had this time period where they were actually doing that, right? With like live shopping functionalities and also more functionalities around checkout. And then they actually shut that down. When do you think they’re gonna reverse that and actually go all out war on TikTok Shop?
Sebastian Nelson (02:57.614)
Yep.
Sebastian Nelson (03:10.286)
Yeah, I think we’ll see more signs of it in the next like 12 months. Definitely. I mean, there’s already infrastructure on Meta now to search for influencers. I think we will absolutely see it in the next 12 months.
Moritz Schröder (03:26.006)
Yeah, I mean, will be exciting. And at the same time, I almost feel like now it’s so nice that almost everything is in TikTok shop, right? It’s the main, the dominant platform, which in a way makes it much easier to work in this field for brands that are actually getting seriously into social commerce, because you know, you only have to focus your resources on that. And maybe something like what not, if that’s your kind of niche, but for the most part, it’s TikTok shop.
And once all the other platforms join the race, it’s gonna get so much more fragmented and so much more complicated to actually pick and choose or do all of the above. Like how do you think that’s gonna play out?
Sebastian Nelson (03:54.816)
Yeah.
Sebastian Nelson (04:06.124)
Well, it’s going to be so fragmented. It’s going to be so incredibly difficult to run these programs at scale on all the platforms. And by like, that’s the opportunity for us is, is to be that kind of solution where we can pull in data from every single channel, aggregate it, and then basically allow you to kind of manage all of those affiliates and manage that social commerce program all in one hub. So as much as yes, it’s, it’s going to be kind of scary and it’s going to be a huge, categorical shift in the market.
That’s the opportunity. know, when things change that that’s that’s where there’s opportunity for for you know, vendors like ourselves for service providers and softwares, but also for brands, right? When there’s all this chaos, that’s where the brands thrive. I mean, look at the brands who have just succeeded on TikTok shop, right? Goalie, Mary Ruth’s, Comfort Clothing, Tart, Sashu, all of these mega mega brands have just been able to scale so aggressively thanks to TikTok shop because they were early.
because they capitalized on the momentum early.
Moritz Schröder (05:09.41)
Yeah, I think it’s also gonna be fantastic for brands who kind of missed that first wave, right? They can then come in on, let’s say Instagram or maybe YouTube shopping and write that new first wave on a new platform because even though they’re not yet on TikTok shop, maybe they can just do what already is working on TikTok shop and copy that success formula of other previous brands like the ones you just mentioned and do it on another platform.
Sebastian Nelson (05:37.588)
Absolutely. But I mean, it’s still early on shop. You know, it’s still early. Like I think the majority of kind of these like legacy brands still aren’t on the platform. You know, we’re starting to see these kind of big names creep up. This Q4 was big, but it’s still so early.
Moritz Schröder (05:56.159)
Yeah, also now that we saw with the live events, some really big names during Black Friday with Kim Kardashian, for example, I Show Speed had a huge live. It’s going to be really interesting, not just on the brand side, but also on the creator side, on the affiliate space, which is where you’re the expert. It’s going to be really fascinating to see if some really big names just turn their entire presence on the platform into essentially being an affiliate.
Sebastian Nelson (06:06.21)
Yep.
Moritz Schröder (06:25.601)
Do you already see signs of that or is that maybe still too early?
Sebastian Nelson (06:25.942)
Yeah. Yeah. You definitely see signs of it. you know, like you said, Kim Kardashian and I show speed, you know, two of the biggest influencers in the world getting on TikTok shop. So that’s, that’s like, there’s never been a bigger growth signal than that. as for influencers becoming affiliates, there there’s going to be a shift because as the ad dollars shift, right.
Right? The influencers who used to be getting those ad dollars are going to have to shift. So if you’re like a creator, maybe with 50 to 250 K, who’s struggling to monetize as an influencer, you can absolutely pivot to UGC or affiliate to monetize, right? And your content creation. So I absolutely do think that shift is happening. And it’s just as a result of the ad dollar shift.
Moritz Schröder (07:16.874)
Yeah, yeah, I can totally see that happening as well. It’s gonna be so fascinating to see that all pan out though, because everybody kind of in that space is aware that these changes will happen eventually. It’s just a matter of time. And yet nobody really knows how it’s gonna shake out, right? And you don’t know who the large winners will be, which I think makes it also so fun to be part of social commerce because there are some underdogs that suddenly do so much better than the…
more established names and you said a lot of brand names that are very well known are not even on the platform yet. So it’s a fantastic time to build a brand and build a following.
Sebastian Nelson (07:46.616)
Yeah.
Sebastian Nelson (07:55.796)
Exactly. mean, you know, it’s akin to the kind of Amazon Gold Rush, where we saw these Amazon native brands be able to take real market share by being early and by being experts on Amazon. Right. They built their businesses on Amazon and they did it while the big players were out in retail and, you know, on Shopify and on these other channels. Amazon came out, people were early to it, and now they’re reaping the rewards of being early.
Moritz Schröder (08:26.472)
Sebastian, you’re reaping the rewards of being early on the tech side of social commerce, which is really cool to see and always great to have people on that actually were just taking that risk, taking that leap of faith when it was so unproven that this is actually going to be as big as it now turns out to be. What was for you the reason to get into social commerce in the first place?
Sebastian Nelson (08:31.032)
Yeah.
Sebastian Nelson (08:49.87)
I mean, you know, honestly, it was like it was a failure that led me into TikTok shop where I was, I was, yeah, exactly. I was an Amazon seller. So I sold on Amazon, you know, starting in 2022, going into 2023. And I had some pretty good success. Like my first product, I was just doing private label. You know, I’d pick a product, I’d import it, and then I’d sell it you know, using FBA. And my first product was this Candle Warmer lamp. And it was really successful. Like it was a hit.
Moritz Schröder (08:54.645)
That’s how all good stories start.
Sebastian Nelson (09:19.052)
As soon as I launched it, boom, sold out. was like seventh in organic rankings for a really strong search volume keyword. And so I reordered again, boom, sold out again. And it was just killing it. And like, was like, my God, this is great. know, I’m forever going to be ranked, you know, number seven organically and this Amazon so easy. Like, okay, let me take on some debt. So I took on some debt and I reordered big. And in the time that I was out of stock, I was out of stock for about three weeks while my product was sitting on the boat from China.
Moritz Schröder (09:38.463)
Yeah
Sebastian Nelson (09:49.167)
Tons of new entrants came onto the market and the customer acquisition cost tripled. So I used to be able to acquire a customer from, three to $7 on Amazon. And now it was costing me literally triple that. So there was no margin left. It was just an unprofitable business. So I had to look at it like, what am I going to do? So I had all these units, I had to repay the loan. So I looked to other channels. I tried running meta ads, but
You know, customer acquisition cost on Meta has also gone through the roof and it’s really hard if you don’t have LTV or high AOV to actually be profitable. This product didn’t. It was like $45, one time purchase, nothing recurring. So then I found TikTok Shop and at the time I wasn’t even like a TikTok user. was just like, you know, I was kind of messing around. I knew what it was. I heard about this TikTok Shop thing randomly. And so let me just list them there, right?
It wasn’t some grand idea like, this is going to be the next big thing. Social commerce, I didn’t even know the word social commerce. I was like, I got to sell these units. And so I listed my products on there. I had like 1,500 units at the time. So not a ton even, but for me at the time, my net worth was tied up in those boxes. And so I was like, have to sell these. So I listed them on TikTok Shop, worked with like 10 affiliates and was able to go viral.
Moritz Schröder (10:50.185)
How many did you have by the way?
Moritz Schröder (10:55.796)
a bit.
Moritz Schröder (11:02.078)
You
Sebastian Nelson (11:11.258)
And that’s not the story for everyone. Look, I got lucky. I was early. but they went viral, sold, went on to sell like 6,000 units within three months. So sold through that inventory and then sold through a whole lot more. And at that point I was like, okay, I’m all in on, I didn’t know social commerce. I was like, I’m just all in on TikTok shop. Right. So, you know, from there I was trying to launch a few other brands, but the biggest pain point I was experiencing was just getting enough affiliates to kind of like keep the ball rolling for these brands.
So, I went to my dear friend Sam, who’s now my co-founder and I was like, hey, can you build this tool to just outreach to affiliates? Like, I just need to get more affiliates for the brand. And he was like, yeah, yeah, sure. And so, we developed and developed and developed and finally we had like a working product and we were using it internally. were like, oh yeah, well let’s just launch this thing publicly. And we did and like, we ended up getting a customer our first kind of weekend, I think we launched.
We didn’t even have an LLC until we got the first customer. You know what mean? It was just like, we weren’t even thinking about that. And so now, seeing what it’s become and growing up in this social commerce era has just been so interesting and fascinating and such a fun experience for me.
Moritz Schröder (12:29.758)
How soon into that experience was it that you decided, okay, I’m going to go all in on the tech side then? Because, I mean, you launched it, as you said, not really knowing what it’s going to turn into. And you still had this other e-commerce business on the side, or at that point even was your main focus. So how soon were you able to tell, okay, this is actually much bigger than just selling and being able to automate the outreach to affiliates?
Sebastian Nelson (12:56.684)
Yeah, totally. I would say after we hit around like 300 brands, I was like, okay, you know, this could be bigger than, know, all these other kinds of little brands I’m working on because nothing had really hit, you know, the candle warmers that I was selling. That was like my big winner. Those were just a Q4 product. So none of the other kind of like year round products were really performing. So I was like, Hey, I’m just going to go, I’m going to go all in on, on this. you know, I’ll still sell my candle warmers in Q4, which, you know,
turned into an absolute disaster. did not get sold. Ended up costing me tens of thousands over the coming years. that’s another story. But yeah, so I would say it really started to ramp up and we got a ton of brands really quickly. People just love the platform. so pretty early on, I was like, okay, I just need to commit to this. I can’t have split focus. And so we just kind of went all in and obviously now it’s kind of worked out.
Moritz Schröder (13:33.554)
You
Moritz Schröder (13:57.092)
And the first brands that you signed up, was that just organically? Was it word of mouth? Did you do any promotion around it on brands that were already on TikTok? Like how did that go about?
Sebastian Nelson (14:05.613)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what’s so funny is like my business development for me in the early days of, of, you know, uptick now Cruva was literally going in like commenting on YouTube videos and like joining courses and commenting on Reddit threads. Like, have you tried this tool? Have you tried this tool? Like literally that that’s, that’s what it was. I didn’t know how to run a software company. I didn’t know it like what I didn’t know. I was a tech founder. People asked me what I did. was like, like I just sell software. didn’t know like
Moritz Schröder (14:20.082)
you
Sebastian Nelson (14:35.213)
You needed to say like, I have a tech startup. That’s what you say. I didn’t know any of this. Exactly. You know what I mean? That wasn’t me. I was like a scrappy, I was just like a hustler. I was just hustling. I would find these products and I would sell these products through whatever means. And so that’s how I grew up and that’s how I always was. And so when it came to starting Cruva and marketing Cruva, I just did the scrappy things. I didn’t know how to build a sales funnel.
Moritz Schröder (14:40.357)
That’s all the cool kids say.
Sebastian Nelson (15:03.821)
You know what I mean? And all these things that I’ve learned through this experience, but you know, it has been a learning experience, but that was literally, that was the business development, was me going and commenting on YouTube videos about TikTok Shop.
Moritz Schröder (15:14.322)
It’s also so funny because now you’re actually running a tool that is literally used to build sales funnels, right? And you didn’t know what a sales funnel was selling that tool. So were you pretending to be someone else when you were commenting in these threads? Like, I have used this tool, I can recommend it. Or were you actually like, hey, I built this myself and try it out?
Sebastian Nelson (15:20.757)
Yeah, I know. No idea. Yeah, exactly.
Sebastian Nelson (15:31.503)
Of course. Yes. No, of course. You’re always I was like, yeah, no, this tool is great. You know, I’ve used it to sell all my candle warmers or something along those lines. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, like I’ve literally I did a LinkedIn post about this because it was so funny, but we had a nine figure brand who came to us and I was like, hey, where’d you hear about us? He’s like, oh, like I saw a Reddit thread about you guys. And he’s like, I don’t know who posted it, but it was great. I was like,
Moritz Schröder (15:43.185)
Well, it’s not a lie!
Sebastian Nelson (16:01.101)
Who could have posted that? Yeah, yeah, that might be an idea.
Moritz Schröder (16:02.258)
You’re like, I might have an idea who posted it. But honestly, I mean, that’s, as I said, the coolest stories to hear failures to hear early day startup struggles and also for people who are in that space right now. And I think a lot of people are, especially in the social commerce field.
They’re just trying to make it right. They’re trying to figure out what works and it’s so brand new that almost nobody really has a clue what works and then the platform and the algorithm shifts make it hard to use tactics that worked three months ago because they might not work anymore. So I think having these stories of people who are, you know, just winging it and kind of going out and hustling until something clicks is fantastic to share.
Sebastian Nelson (16:36.43)
Yes.
Sebastian Nelson (16:43.791)
Yeah.
Sebastian Nelson (16:50.755)
Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah, it is absolutely that. You just, hustle until something clicks.
Moritz Schröder (16:56.707)
Yeah, exactly. Before this podcast, I was doing a YouTube channel that I grew over time, but I remember the first 100 subscribers took me forever to reach. And basically what cracked that milestone was commenting on other YouTube videos and being like, wow, this is a great video. I’m going to implement that in my upcoming video. And that’s just hoping that people find my channel through these comments. And it worked for the first 100. I mean, that’s how you get your start, right?
Sebastian Nelson (17:12.1)
Really?
Sebastian Nelson (17:19.887)
Exactly, exactly. Yeah, it works. Exactly, exactly.
Moritz Schröder (17:26.386)
What issues, mean, obviously you mentioned that you were working, selling your product and having a hard time reaching out to enough affiliates, but were there any specific problems that you saw in the process that you just felt like needed to be fixed by any software and then you just happened to be the one eventually building it with your co-founder or was it more like, okay, this is a cool tool and let’s see if there’s any use for it?
Sebastian Nelson (17:48.973)
Yeah.
Sebastian Nelson (17:53.239)
No, it was absolutely like you couldn’t reach out to enough affiliates if you just were on TikTok shop. I had VA’s, I would have virtual assistants just reaching out to affiliates all day. was like, this can be optimized, this can be automated. And so that was like, and if you look back to the first demos of Cruva, was like the ugliest platform you could possibly imagine, right? Cause we just solved one acute pain point, right?
Moritz Schröder (18:17.749)
Ha ha.
Sebastian Nelson (18:21.667)
And then from there, as I built my brands, we really iterated it where it was like, okay, I want to be able to send a creator brief to all of our new affiliates, right? To show them, Hey, this is what already went viral. Like go try and recreate this. And so then we built that and brands absolutely love that. And then we were like, okay, well, what if we could message the affiliates as soon as they got their first sale? Right. And like reward them, give them a congratulations. And so we built that. Right. And like, just, we just constantly iterated by, you know, at first just feedback from
from me being out there selling. And then now, of course, just like listening to our customers, I still do every onboarding myself. And I hear the pain points. We try and really stay close to the customer so we understand what’s actually going on in the market that we can solve.
Moritz Schröder (19:08.495)
That is so valuable. And I mean, the fact that you had your own brands and you would use Cruva or UpTik in the time to use the software and optimize your flow and your way of reaching out to affiliates.
I mean, that must be so valuable insight as opposed to somebody who just, you know, sees a way to maybe make money selling software and they’re like, okay, let’s make this tool. But they don’t have the deep knowledge, right? I mean, they have superficial insight into the market probably when they built such a tool, but it’s not like they have had their own brands and came across these pain points that you then went out to solve.
Sebastian Nelson (19:44.558)
Yeah, exactly. And I think that’s one of the things that kind of separates us from, you know, our competitors that, you know, I lived, I lived that experience. I know what it’s like to be that brand founder, you know, selling on TikTok shop and it’s hard and you have to be like very scrappy and, and there’s, you have to be constantly shifting and ready to shift because the market’s always moving as you mentioned.
Moritz Schröder (19:56.464)
You
Moritz Schröder (20:07.116)
Now there are a couple of tools that do similar things like Cruva. Were there any tools when you first launched or were you the first one out there?
Sebastian Nelson (20:13.589)
Yeah, no, we were late to the market. There were already these tools. We just, we didn’t like them. We didn’t like them. We didn’t think they, we didn’t think they had all the functionality and we just thought we could do better. because again, like I was a seller, so I tried them and I just thought, Hey, we can do better than this. And so we were late to market, you know, we were really behind, you know, the competition and, and, and now like in the past, like eight months, we’ve really gained a
Moritz Schröder (20:21.88)
Hahaha
Sebastian Nelson (20:42.472)
of market share and all mainly through word of mouth because we feel like we’ve just built the best tool on the market.
Moritz Schröder (20:50.009)
What were the tools that already existed and that you didn’t like? Maybe you don’t want to badmouth them, but like now I’m for example aware of UK, I am aware of Reacher. Were they already up and running back then or did they come in after you?
Sebastian Nelson (21:04.865)
Yeah, so Yuka and Reacher were kind of like first to market. There was another one called RippyBot at the time that was also like really, really early. I think RippyBot was actually the first and I don’t know what happened to them. They kind of just fizzled out. But we were really like, we were last to market, you know? It’s so funny, like in those early days, it was like when, because there were like a million bots, right? I mean, there were a million at the time, like, and there were bots launching left and right. There were new bots launching. There were maybe like 20.
And so like when Yuka, I remember they, I believe they joined our Discord server and just like knowing that they knew who we were, like they knew we existed was like, this is so cool. Like we’re actually like, you know, they know we exist. You know what I mean? Like we’re obviously doing something right. It was just so funny back in the day. So like now obviously, you know, we have a good relationship with their team. But yeah, it was, we were very late to market and only in the past like eight months have really started to kind of take market share and take some of these big enterprise brands.
Moritz Schröder (21:43.08)
Yeah
Moritz Schröder (22:05.538)
And how have you positioned yourself now against the competition, like for example, Yuka or Reacher, what kind of functionality do you focus on that they maybe don’t do as much and how do they differentiate themselves from you? Because I mean, you’ve been around for roughly two years now, so it’s been a little bit of time to consolidate and maybe find your niche. Where do you see your selling points as opposed to those?
Sebastian Nelson (22:29.495)
Yeah, absolutely. mean, against Reacher, it’s just purely reliability and then customer support. So those are the two main things how we differentiate there. Against Yuca, they have good reliability and support. against Yuca, they have this creator community where they have their own creators, which they can then rent out to you. We’ve gone in a different direction where our goal is to enable the brands and our vision is to enable the brands to really build their own internal
creator communities, right? So we want every brand to actually own those creator communities rather than kind of like always renting a community from somebody else because naturally like they’re always going to raise rates. You know, the rates are always going to go up. Their rates aren’t going down. So we want the brands to kind of have stability and actually build those relationships because that’s what we see working. Like when you can get, you know, and build a relationship with the creator one-on-one and this is what I saw as a seller as well. Like
I would send creators flowers for the holidays. Anything you could do to like really cement those relationships they appreciate when you go above and beyond. And so we really want to enable brands to be able to do that.
Moritz Schröder (23:30.925)
Mm-mm.
Moritz Schröder (23:38.635)
And have you built in any tools into your platform that it sounds a bit almost fake then, but to optimize some part of, you know, building that relationship and actually maintaining affiliates so they don’t get stolen by other brands, for example.
Sebastian Nelson (23:51.321)
Yeah.
Sebastian Nelson (23:56.429)
Yeah, totally. Well, the issue is just communication. How do you communicate on a platform where they’re always getting, you know, messaged a million times a day? So the first, you know, problem is getting them off platform. And the way we do that is through, you know, we have a community suite within the tool where you can offer them retainers, you can offer them, you know, host contests and you can do leaderboard campaigns. So these three different types of incentives where you can reward creators based on things other than just commission.
That is kind what enables you you send them an offer saying hey, by the way, you know If you sell ten thousand dollars worth of GMB, you got a two thousand dollar reward You can sign up on this link you send the creator accrue of a link when they join on that link You there then part of that contest they can track all of their results They can get paid out in just a few clicks if they hit their goal But then you also get the data on them. So you get their phone number you get their email And so that that’s what it’s about It’s about actually being able to the first step is just being able to communicate with them, right? So if you can get their phone number and email
You have a direct line of communication that is so much more effective than, you know, just the TikTok DMs because it’s so noisy.
Moritz Schröder (25:02.859)
And is there also a way to have some kind of community where there’s communication both ways? I know a lot of brands and also agencies use Discord servers, for example, for their affiliates. It seems very messy to me, at least, to be part of those giant Discord servers. Is there a way with Encroova to actually have affiliates talk to each other, maybe compare notes, see what works, what doesn’t, all of that jazz?
Sebastian Nelson (25:14.788)
Yep.
Sebastian Nelson (25:30.699)
So that’s kind of like where we see the market going and where we kind of want to position ourselves. Yeah. So right now that functionality is not there, but it’s coming in the future because that’s what we want to do. Again, we’re building this community and so that is the vision and that’s what we’re building towards.
Moritz Schröder (25:48.043)
Right. Do you see Cruva only as a tool for brands or is it also used by agencies, for example? Like do agencies use Cruva to reach out to affiliates on behalf of the brands that they work with or do you purely target the brands behind it?
Sebastian Nelson (26:06.733)
No, we work with tons of agencies, like 40 plus agencies, some of the biggest agencies in the world use our platform to provide better results to their brands. That’s the name of the game. If you’re an agency is to kind of scale your quality of fulfillment without scaling headcount, because agencies can be very labor intensive. So, or that like infrastructure layer that really allows them to scale their agency without just like…
Moritz Schröder (26:34.836)
Yeah, I feel like that will probably become a larger and larger problem that you have really successful affiliates just being chased by everyone, different agencies, different brands, everybody wants to have the ones that perform best. Do you have anything in mind for your platform in the future or maybe already built in now that can help retain those besides the tools that you already mentioned with leaderboards and rewards?
Sebastian Nelson (27:03.511)
Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, it’s relationships. So I can’t, I can’t automate a relationship. You can’t. So if you want to retain an affiliate on another level and you want to separate yourself, every brand can offer incentives. Not every brand can actually build a relationship one-on-one. And so if you want to retain an affiliate, unfortunately, there’s nothing I can do. You need to go out there and build that relationship. Right. It’s incentives and relationships, but
If you’re able to have a phone call with an affiliate, if you’re able to text them personally and they answer like that’s priceless. They’re, going to respect. If you respect them, they respect you and you’re able to build like an amazing business relationship where you’re both supporting each other. That’s, that’s what Tik Tok Shop’s about. that is absolutely what Tik Tok Shop is about is, is building, you know, affiliate communities, like the one and done affiliates. they’re hard to work with and it’s.
really hard to be profitable with them. they’re not making multiple videos, it just makes your life really hard because your only lever to pull is send more samples. And samples are expensive. So you got to pay for cost of goods. You got to pay for shipping. So if that’s your only lever, it’s going to be hard to be profitable. So what we see the brands that are winning, they’re retaining their creators, right? They’re getting multiple videos from them. And so that is its incentives. Yes. So contest, leaderboards, whatever you can do to incentivize them properly.
but its relationships as well.
Moritz Schröder (28:29.599)
Yeah, so fascinating that that’s probably gonna be a pretty important job in the future in that space that you just have someone who is essentially managing your affiliate network and building those relationships and maintaining those relationships. And in a way, I find that a beautiful thing because I feel like in the last 10, 15 years with social media and e-commerce, cetera, it’s become so automized in a way and
Sebastian Nelson (28:42.063)
Totally.
Moritz Schröder (28:56.139)
personal relationships seem to matter less and less. And now it seems to go a little bit in the other direction where it’s really about the personal relationship. And sure there are tools like yours that can be used to do that at scale to some extent, but in the end you still need someone who is building those relationships, who is nurturing it, who’s putting in the time and effort. And actually, as you said, flowers for the holidays.
Sebastian Nelson (29:22.489)
Yes.
Moritz Schröder (29:22.888)
I mean, that goes such a long way and it’s a beautiful thing that seems to make a comeback.
Sebastian Nelson (29:24.941)
Yes. Yeah, it really does go a long way. And like at the end of the day, the personal touch, nothing can beat that. People want to feel seen. People want to feel seen.
Moritz Schröder (29:36.656)
I can also imagine for you as a founder that that’s really satisfying, that that’s essentially what makes your tool successful. If you want to use it the best possible way, you have to put in that extra effort, that extra little touch of humanity and caring and building that loyalty.
Sebastian Nelson (29:51.085)
Yes. Absolutely. And by the way, like this is something I pride myself on as a founder. And you know, I talk with every single one of our brands and every single one of our brands know that they can reach out to me and probably get a response within five minutes. Normally, you know, every single one across the board, whether agency brand, littles, big, whatever. And so like that level of care is what makes a difference.
Moritz Schröder (30:17.641)
Yeah, couldn’t agree more. And also it’s so cool when it’s genuine, like it clearly is with you and your company. And then hopefully also with the brands that use your tool. You have giants like Amazon, for example, who pride themselves in customer care and customer comes first and all of that. And sure, like same day shipping, you can interpret as really caring about the customer, but it’s not the same feeling as getting flowers for your special days.
Sebastian Nelson (30:28.27)
Yeah.
Sebastian Nelson (30:45.517)
Totally, yeah.
Moritz Schröder (30:47.396)
do you see yourself and Cruva working in the future also with like live shopping more and more like live shopping hosts, for example, that I know right now are really in demand. Maybe also the possibility to actually have a roster of agencies that you can pick from as a brand to make it less focused on only the affiliate side of social commerce.
Sebastian Nelson (31:10.893)
Yeah, totally. So, I mean, I’m super excited about live. It’s just, it’s a really fun space and it’s just so exciting because it’s so new and the playbook is there from China. And so just watching it grow and develop, I just feel like, you know, it’s an inevitability that becomes big in the U.S. It’s just about waiting until kind of the consumer behavior actually shifts. And so within our platform, we actually just shipped about two weeks ago, a full live suite.
So within, again, on the point of differentiation, nobody else has this. So you can now search for live hosts using AI. So you can say, hey, I want girls age 35 to 45 who have dogs and have generated 10k in live GMB. And boom, it’ll spit out a list of potential live hosts for your brand, which you can then reach out to and unclick. You can now track all of your lives in one place, one dashboard.
Moritz Schröder (31:39.903)
Nice.
Sebastian Nelson (32:08.471)
And then you can also do conditional logic to reach back out to, to potential live hosts who have maybe fallen off. let’s say, you know, you had a live host who generated some sales, but now they haven’t gone live in 10 days. can set up an automation to reach out to them and just check in. Right. So we’ve just shipped all of this in the past kind of few weeks. And then on top of that, one other thing I forgot to mention is within the contests and the leaderboards.
You can now reward creators for hitting a live milestone. So you can say, Hey, you know, we have one contest for our video first creators, but we also have another contest for our live first creators where, if you generate $10,000 on a live stream or live streams over the course of a month, you get XYZ results.
Moritz Schröder (32:53.737)
I wasn’t aware of that functionality. That’s really cool. And I think that’s very necessary as life becomes bigger and bigger. How do you even filter out people that do lives on a regular basis? Is that something that you can pull that they go live a certain cadence or how did you find those?
Sebastian Nelson (33:11.439)
Yeah, well, frankly, what we found is live GMV is really kind of the only thing that matters because like if they do if they do a good amount in live GMV, it just means they go they’re a live creator. So just looking at like their live GMV versus their general GMV, if the live GMV is all of the general GMV, that’s a live creator. And there’s a lot of them out there. And it’s an underserved market. Brands aren’t actually reaching out to them as much to do lives because the capabilities only exist as of again.
two weeks ago.
Moritz Schröder (33:41.736)
That’s a smart insight. think probably nobody before you launched that feature had any insights into how much live sellers were doing and they certainly weren’t able to filter for it and then reach out to them, right?
Sebastian Nelson (33:56.525)
Yeah, exactly.
Moritz Schröder (33:58.47)
Wow, that is amazing. I’m not sure if as of now people are aware that that exists because it seems like for people and brands that are really going hard on live shopping and want to double down on it, that is a functionality that’s pretty much a must have if you want to be serious about it.
Sebastian Nelson (34:16.237)
Yes, an absolute must have. Agreed, yeah.
Moritz Schröder (34:20.469)
what kind of trajectory do you see life going on? Do you see any features or, market shifts that you already try to, cater towards maybe in 2026, or do you just as a whole, see the whole industry grow and that’s what you’re trying to build for just an increased demand. Like what kind of trends do you try to accommodate for?
Sebastian Nelson (34:46.167)
Yeah. Well, I mean, it’s so hard to predict when it comes to shop because every everything changes so quickly. But what I will say is shop is, you know, has pushed live really, really aggressively, you know, from from the kind of the higher ups at TikTok have all pushed it really aggressively, which has disseminated to everyone pushing brands to do lives. so.
I think over the next kind of two years, and by the way, is what not has become kind of a behemoth. They just raised, you know, a huge round at like an $11 billion valuation. So there’s a lot of momentum for the live space. know, Gary V is talking about it. know, if hopefully it’s not like NFTs and they all just tank as soon as he starts talking about them. assuming it’s a growth signal that Gary V is talking about them. I’m yeah, exactly. 50 50.
Moritz Schröder (35:27.464)
Non-stop, yeah.
50-50
Sebastian Nelson (35:39.407)
I think it’s just going to be really fun. like the next two years, this consumer behavior shifts and the infrastructure kind of continues to get built out. I think live the GMV, know, whether TikTok shop, just live GMV in general in the U S is just going to continue to probably like two to five X every year for the next, you know, maybe three or four years.
Moritz Schröder (36:01.783)
And to have a company like TikTok or ByteDance in the background that has all that experience from their presence in China and all the years of seeing live shopping evolve and grow into what it now is in China, like this massive industry that is doing billions and billions in GMV.
Sebastian Nelson (36:08.343)
Yeah.
Moritz Schröder (36:20.593)
to then have that company expand into the US and other Western markets and bring that knowledge with them. I mean, if anyone can make consumer accept live shopping as the new way of shopping, them.
Sebastian Nelson (36:30.187)
Yeah 100 % no, I mean look they have the playbook. mean doyen has live shopping is Synonymous with China now, right? That is just a Chinese way of life is live shopping. It’s just huge and We’re just not even scratching the surface of it yet in the US
Moritz Schröder (36:51.313)
How much are you paying attention to other markets? I know you’ve rolled out to, think maybe even all of the Western markets where TikTok Shop is live. But beyond that, do you look at Asia at all to see what probably five years from now could be a reality in the US?
Sebastian Nelson (36:58.541)
Yeah.
Sebastian Nelson (37:05.647)
Yes, yes, definitely. mean, like the biggest thing is live, but absolutely like looking at kind of the playbook of what happened in China is a key indicator. But for us, really, it’s like, we focus on our tool and our customers so, so like, you know, in depth, we’re very in the weeds, where we’re trying to get like right now feedback.
Right. Because obviously we want to do future planning and thinking about, how does the platform develop, you know, holistically and omni-channel. But, but really we try and stay really close to the customer again. So it’s like, we’re more so more than we look at China and like, see what they did. I just like to talk to customers and see what are you guys suffering with them? Like, let’s talk to sellers who are doing, you know, $500K, a million dollars every month on the platform. Be like, Hey, like what are the pain points you’re experiencing?
Moritz Schröder (37:59.034)
Yeah, makes a ton of sense for me. And even though the playbook is similar, think Asian markets are very different in some ways. So it’s definitely not copy paste from what they’re doing to them be applied in the West. There’s nuances to it. You pay very close attention, I’m sure to new markets that go live with TikTok shop.
Sebastian Nelson (38:22.169)
Yes.
Moritz Schröder (38:23.59)
How quickly do you usually enter the market once TikTok Shop enters the market? And how quickly are you even able to roll out with language translation, et cetera, and then also building up the roster of affiliates that is needed to make it work?
Sebastian Nelson (38:37.359)
Usually like a week, usually a week we’re live in every new market. Yeah, we try and move very quick. We’ve, you know, I think we’re basically dominating the UK market. We have about seven out of top 10 TikTok shop agency partners in the UK, as well as hundreds of brands. We have a great relationship with TikTok out there. We have the biggest agency in Germany, as well as like tons of other agencies.
Moritz Schröder (38:39.343)
Wow, that’s quick.
Sebastian Nelson (39:01.679)
Great agencies across, you know, the rest of Europe, although Germany is the biggest market in Europe and then Brazil Mexico. These are also exciting markets Brazil Is really exciting to me. It’s exploding. I mean the the GMV numbers It’s I think the best launch Tik Tok Shop has had period in terms of like adoption rates, so That’s a really exciting market for me. We’re looking there really like pretty aggressively and
Again, we’re trying to push every territory aggressively.
Moritz Schröder (39:35.909)
When you launch, how is that even logistically possible to launch within a week if basically there are no affiliates as of that point, right? I mean, they’ve been selling for literally a week then. How can you find the most successful affiliates if they’ve only been selling for a week? How does it look like?
Sebastian Nelson (39:55.617)
Yeah, so we just pull every affiliate. know, we pull every affiliate in these markets. then they’re, know, they, they, tick tock does a great job of activating quickly, right? Because they haven’t, they haven’t engaged user base. So all they have to do is put a pop up on the user screen saying, Hey, you want to earn commission by making tick tocks of products. They say yes. And then boom, they’re in the affiliate program. And then we can, we can pull them into our system.
Moritz Schröder (39:58.724)
Okay. Fair enough.
Moritz Schröder (40:19.193)
Nice, do you have any more insights into how TikTok usually approaches a rollout in a new market? Anything that you know from behind the scenes?
Sebastian Nelson (40:28.623)
I mean, honestly, they do kind of like a blitz strategy. try and they’re very aggressive. You know what I mean? Like they try and get all the best agencies to launch. They get all the best. They try and get all the best brands to launch and then they go top down. Right. So it’s like, need, it’s a two-sided marketplace is tough because you need to grow them kind of in conjunction. Right. And so that’s what they do a great job of is they activate the brands early. And then when the creator side comes, you know,
they have those brands ready to go.
Moritz Schröder (41:00.389)
Right. Any markets that you’re waiting for, hoping for in 2026?
Sebastian Nelson (41:07.799)
Absolutely, would say Korea is going to be a good one. Hopefully it launches next year and then Australia, think that’ll be a great market too.
Moritz Schröder (41:16.663)
Nice, nice. As I mentioned, I’m based in Scandinavia, so I have some hopes for Sweden. I’ve seen them being mentioned a couple of times, even though nothing official, obviously. So fingers crossed there.
Sebastian Nelson (41:18.465)
Not… Yeah. Yes.
Sebastian Nelson (41:28.791)
Yeah, I think the Scandinavian countries will come. I’m sure they will. I I think every country, you know, and also like the Eastern European countries as well, will all come. And then, yeah, of course, you know, the Korean market is a great e-commerce market in general. Australia, again, as well. So not great for my sleep schedule. You know, with all of our UK clients, I’m up early. And now with clients over there, I’m going to be up late. But
It’s just amazing to see the growth of TikTok Shop.
Moritz Schröder (42:02.506)
If you want to keep your rhythm of onboarding all of those brands personally, it’s going to get tougher and tougher as TikTok Shop grows. How does growth look like on Kruba’s end? How much are you hiring? What are you growing most in terms of job descriptions? What is your strategy for the next year?
Sebastian Nelson (42:07.919)
It is, it already is getting a little bit tough. It’s already getting a little bit tough.
Sebastian Nelson (42:24.335)
Yeah. So, I mean, we’re hiring aggressively. We’re onboarding. We’re onboarding three people in the span of a month. And, you know, we’re at now about 830 brands on the platform and growing at around 20 % per month. So growing really, really quickly. so, like, hiring’s been a challenge. It’s hard to find people with a ton of experience in the space, but we have an absolutely just amazing team. We’ve gotten really, really lucky with
with everyone we’ve hired and they’ve just been absolute rock stars. And so like we’re just continuing to hire the best people we can find. If they’re a culture fit, we hire them and then we figure out roles and descriptions later. We just, wanna have the best people on our team and so that’s what we’ve prioritized.
Moritz Schröder (43:09.112)
Nice and very startup-ish, very cool. Do you have like physical offices or do you all work remotely?
Sebastian Nelson (43:11.887)
Totally, absolutely, yes. Yes.
Sebastian Nelson (43:18.703)
We’re all remote right now, but we have kind of like a home base in LA. We’re all remote, but, you know, myself, my partner, and then a couple of other people on the team are all in LA. So we’re thinking about getting kind of a small office here. We’re still like kind of a remote company, but I think it’s like really important to build culture. And so like doing that’s a lot easier in person. So whether that be, you know, off sites where we all kind of go somewhere for retreats, et cetera.
or just having like a physical location that’s a hub and maybe we do a once a quarter kind of sink here.
Moritz Schröder (43:51.309)
Right. I mean, you’re being used as an affiliate outreach tool for the most part. How do you see the affiliate space as a whole evolving, growing, and also adapting to this still fairly new way of doing affiliate work, right? I mean, you had affiliate marketers for as long as the internet has been around and probably even before that, but this is a very new and very exciting way for affiliates to work. Do you have any…
Sebastian Nelson (44:09.284)
Yeah.
Moritz Schröder (44:20.223)
insights into how the industry is adapting to this very recent change of TikTok shop.
Sebastian Nelson (44:26.861)
Yeah, I think it’s, I mean, it’s incredibly exciting. Number one, number two is there’s not enough affiliates. so we need more affiliates. like, if there’s any listeners here who like trying to make income on the side, I mean, Tik Tok Shop, the supply and demand is way off. There are way more great brands, you know, who need affiliates and there are affiliates to fulfill the demand. that’s number one. Number two, I think this is a shift in where the ad dollars will go over the next kind of three to five years.
I think the influencer model is outdated, it’s too expensive, and largely, you you’re placing a big bet and oftentimes failing in huge, huge, huge proportions, right? There’s huge failures because you’re betting $100,000, $500,000 on an influencer campaign over five influencers, you know? Whereas you could take that budget and get thousands of pieces of content back, right? And I think that’s a more attractive
offer for brands, right? And again, we’re seeing the brands that kind of have jumped on this opportunity succeed. So I think when as those ad dollars shift, the affiliates will come as they’ll see the opportunity. That’s the amazing thing about capitalism is the people will see the opportunity. They’ll realize, hey, there’s some money to be made here. And just like a bunch of influencers kind of cropped up and everyone wanted to be an influencer kind of as their job.
we’re going to see the same thing with affiliate, where more and more people treat affiliate as a job. They are going to be content-first affiliates.
Moritz Schröder (46:01.078)
Yeah, it’s so interesting. I actually had two people on the podcast before that now were speakers at the Affiliate World Conference that recently happened. And it just shows that there’s a clear shift towards TikTok affiliate, at least interest. And as you said, if the money is there, for sure the affiliates will come eventually. How do you see the setup matured though? Because I talked to more more people who say that this is
Sebastian Nelson (46:18.979)
Yes, exactly. They will come. Yeah.
Moritz Schröder (46:29.294)
not how it’s sustainable in the long run with purely a commission based model. Instead, we’re gonna see more more retainers, especially for the really successful content creators out there. Do you think that’s true or is that something that you’re already noticing on your platform? Do you notice something different?
Sebastian Nelson (46:45.645)
Yeah, yeah, sure. But again, that’s just a supply and demand issue. The reason these creators can demand retainers is because there’s so many brands and not enough creators. So again, the supply and demand is off. As the supply of creators increases and it levels, I think you can just have a commission-based marketplace. Yes, always the top performers will be able to demand this, right? But I think by and large, what makes this so amazing and such a categorical shift is that you have people
who just do it for the commission.
Moritz Schröder (47:19.241)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, totally. How do you think the tech space of TikTok Shop will evolve going forward? Like, is there already a way of consolidation happening where companies getting acquired in your space or you mentioned some just…
disappear from the radar while others keep flourishing and growing. Like, is there a consolidation already or is it too soon for that? And it just has more more incumbents popping up.
Sebastian Nelson (47:46.68)
Yeah.
Sebastian Nelson (47:54.967)
Yeah, it’s just too soon for that. There’s not many new players. There are new players popping up, but it’s more so like, you know, FastMoss has launched an outreach tool. You know what I mean? And like, it’ll never be as good as our tool because that’s not what they do. And we have FastMoss-like analytics on our tool, but again, they’ll never be on the level of FastMoss. So there’s kind of like this shift where like everyone’s kind of going down the same, you know, line of like building the everything solution.
Moritz Schröder (48:05.821)
Right.
Sebastian Nelson (48:24.719)
But again, like there’s not a ton of new entrants because it’s actually like fairly difficult that we have a pretty solid kind of technical mode because it’s actually like hard tools to build, right? And that’s why we see, you know, some of our competitors floundering because they simply can’t keep up on the tech side.
Moritz Schröder (48:42.475)
Do you see any tech that is completely different from what you’re building that is currently lacking in the industry? Something where you’re like, okay, if somebody wants to get into this, they probably should build this.
Sebastian Nelson (48:55.597)
Yeah, I would say like profit tools, like things that give brands kind of access to like in-depth profit analytics, just like there’s a ton of them for Amazon. There’s some now for TikTok shop, but I think it’s a largely untapped market.
Moritz Schröder (49:12.011)
Okay. Okay. Anything else that comes to mind or is it mostly covering the funnel as it is existing today?
Sebastian Nelson (49:20.193)
Yeah, I mean, I think there’s some opportunity in live, but I don’t know exactly kind of what that will look like. But naturally, these kind of there becomes more GMV in a category, there’s more money to spend from brands who are doing live. And so naturally, there will be solutions to make the life easier of those brands.
Moritz Schröder (49:39.082)
Yeah, recently talked to the CEO of a company called Stickler. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with them. They build software for exactly that for lives where they help with scripting, they help to keep the host on track and also of course collect all the data and actually lets you compare your data to the data of competitors. So you can, if they’re using the same tool, you can actually see their conversion rate or their retention.
Sebastian Nelson (49:43.917)
I have not, no.
Sebastian Nelson (49:47.844)
Yeah.
Sebastian Nelson (49:51.257)
Got it.
Sebastian Nelson (50:06.707)
wow.
Moritz Schröder (50:08.733)
I think it’s neat to have these platforms because you have so much insight into what everyone else is doing, right? As opposed to just looking at what your brand is doing and you can’t even really compare because there’s so few data points that other brands are sharing for obvious reasons.
Sebastian Nelson (50:10.883)
Yeah.
Sebastian Nelson (50:17.464)
Yeah.
Sebastian Nelson (50:23.797)
Absolutely, yeah, completely agree.
Moritz Schröder (50:25.629)
I think you’re actually sitting there on a gold mine potentially to put all of that data, of course, anonymized out there in a way of playbook or I don’t know, a separate tool that you could build for that. Like it’s, it’s a lot of data that you must have access to that nobody else in the world probably has.
Sebastian Nelson (50:28.335)
Yeah.
Sebastian Nelson (50:35.881)
Exactly.
Sebastian Nelson (50:42.689)
Yeah. Yeah, totally. I mean, we have tons of video data. It’s just like building a way to actually parse through that data that’s not incredibly astronomically expensive is the kind of like the limiting factor right now. But by the way, like as these models, these AI model get cheaper and cheaper, you know, that’s what’s exciting is we’re going to be able to do that in the near future.
Moritz Schröder (50:51.807)
You
Moritz Schröder (51:05.437)
Are you already working on letting AI maybe identify, you know, what works best in terms of storyline, in terms of hooks, in terms of interpreting all of these different factors that make a sales video really pop?
Sebastian Nelson (51:13.164)
Absolutely, yeah.
Sebastian Nelson (51:18.423)
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
Moritz Schröder (51:21.578)
Yeah, it’s gonna be so interesting to actually have all of that broken down very granularly because right now, probably for the creators a little bit less so, but for somebody like me who is more on the outside, it seems like so much of it is just guesswork. You don’t really know what is gonna stick with the people who are watching. And that’s why you need so many creators and so many videos, right? Because you can never just pick 10 and say, okay, five of these were.
Sebastian Nelson (51:41.933)
I know.
Moritz Schröder (51:48.955)
are going to go viral, you need like a thousand and then you have like 50 or a hundred that will do really well.
Sebastian Nelson (51:51.839)
Exactly. Yep, so much of it is a volume game. You’re absolutely right.
Moritz Schröder (51:58.951)
Yeah. I mean, it’s, gonna be super fascinating how that evolves over time. Do you have any plans to encourage or build a way to create more top of the funnel content through affiliates or is it always going to be purely, you know, what gets the sale?
Sebastian Nelson (52:15.903)
No, it’s totally. mean, look, it’s both the goal for most brands is top of funnel, right? So our goal is is always always always to get brands viral videos, you know, like it bottom of funnel is no good if you don’t if you don’t have if you’re a new brand bottom of funnel is useless, right? There’s no traffic to convert. So we’re always looking for more creative ways to kind of filter out the affiliates who just do bottom of funnel.
Moritz Schröder (52:43.583)
Yeah. And I think probably there’s also a little bit of a mindset shift needed with brands to some extent to hear about making a quick win on TikTok shop. And then you probably have to educate them that there’s much more to that in terms of content creation.
Sebastian Nelson (52:55.128)
Yes.
Sebastian Nelson (52:59.67)
Exactly. Yep.
Moritz Schröder (53:02.367)
Cool. Sebastian, where can people find you? Where can people reach out if they want to work with you, if they want to maybe get a demo of Cruva or immediately sign up for it? What’s the best way to get in contact with you?
Sebastian Nelson (53:14.637)
Yeah, cruva.com, C-R-U-V-A dot com. then, know, sebastian at cruva.com if you want to send me an email. And then of course I’m active, very active on LinkedIn, Sebastian Nelson there if you want to look me up. And then always happy to chat, always happy to, you know, discuss TikTok shop in any capacity.
Moritz Schröder (53:32.872)
Beautiful. Sebastian, thanks so much for coming on. It was a great chat with you.
Sebastian Nelson (53:36.821)
Awesome. Thank you so much for having me.